GSDCA National in Beaumont - Page 4

Bob M gets it 100%.  It ought to be obvious to everyone that Xeph's posts are all spoof.  Betcha Xeph is a middle aged man.

Xeph is actually a 23 year old woman ;-)  And just because I disagree doesn't mean I'm wrong.  Can my younger male scale a 6 foot wall?  Yes.  Is his nerve good?  Yes.  I can't however work him consistently in schutzhund.  Discounting someone's experiences just because they aren't as old is absolutely ludicrous.

Nothing spoofy about them (by the way, spoofing would be to make fun of something, and I'm not making fun of anything).  Does my client dog do any of the things the dog I own does?  Not beyond what I can do in my own yard, because that is not part of my job.  I work him in obedience a bit, but that's all I can do.  On top of that, he's seven, so I could try and find somewhere to dabble in all three phases, but at this point, he is what he is.

It is your opinion that showing is foo foo.  I again disagree.  I happen to love it, and do not believe that schutzhund is the be all end all of the GSD, though I most certainly appreciate it's value.  When I have the time and funds to return to it, I'll be happy to, but until I graduate from school and get out of my current living situation, it is not an option, and I show where I can, when I can.

It's good to see more and more people respond though, so I can further see why we have these gigantic splits.  Attitudes abound that everyone has the "right" flavor of GSD, when nobody can be right...it's all opinion.  I value all lines for different things, plan on having some of each, though I certainly won't be breeding them all.  Heck, I'm happy with my cross dogs.

 I,m asking about the dog in question that had a posted picture, and a 6 foot vertical wall ? There is a ass for every seat I,m just concerned that if this is the pick dog of the show representing the breed it is a poor representation...in my opinion. 

The gsd in the first pic is standing on his back leg and his pasterns are weak..

He could clear a 4 foot wall much less a six..look at back right leg....I remember Heidleburg shepherds stand  just like that too...they dont use feet they stand on their whole leg...terrible....

Preston, Bob M and RiK know . I cannot believe anyone fall for this weakness.

We've seen worse than Diesel. At least he isn't standing completely on his hock. But I don't see him going over a 39" hurdle let alone a 6' scaling wall with a 2.2 lb. dumb bell, or even trying without injuring himself, given that rear end.

I do think the GSDCA "specialty" type dog should be renamed American Shepherd. I also believe that rather than trying to mix German and American lines to improve temperament and soundness, among other things, is a waste of energy most of the time. Better to spay and neuter the American line dogs one loves and start completely over with new lines because its gonna be 2-3 generations before we see any consistency in type, etc. with such a dramatic outcross, no linebreeding. Why so many people still insist on mixing this American line dog and that German showline dog and that working line dog (a "smattering" of everything...all over the board) is absolutely beyond me... no rhyme or reason whatsoever as far as as intent for improvement of... WHAT? Not much most of the time IMO, just more dogs with nothing in particular to recommend them for breeding.

Pardon me for being so negative, but I am getting tired of having to tell awful truth to people who bring their pride and joy (one unsure spook after another) out here expecting them to do any kind of work because some so-called breeder TOLD them that the American/German show/Wkg line/whatever puppy they spent too much money on was gonna be a good working prospect (huh? says WHO?)  I don't like to be the bad guy every time that happens, having to be careful I don't get bitten just trying to approach the g-d nerve-bags as innocuously as possible... and it happens A LOT. I just wish people would stop breeding litter after litter of dogs with not so much as one breed surveyed ancestor in 1-3 generations. AKC reg. and OFA, and/or some candy-ass agility, CD, Rally title, Canine Good Citizen or not, is not a good reason to breed a GSD.

I'm pretty sure I could get at least a couple of those "titles" with a RAT.   I wouldn't breed it either.

Argh... SS

The difference here is that the Germans  have a very high standard for which the dogs are suppose to fall into.  If the dog or dogs do not fit into this breeding standard then they don't receive papers in which to be able breed that animal. In North America it boils down basically to whatever the individual breeder wants or is happy with.  If he wants to breed dogs that don't have exrays, or dogs that can't even pass a temperament test,  or dogs with no ball drive whatsoever...he can.  I believe when this happens the breed begins to fall away from the "ideal standard" and the depth of quality drops.  This happens with all breeding programs in  which there are no guidelines and standards set for breeders to set their goals towards.  I believe the North American bred Shepherds are phenotypically almost a different breed from  German bred Shepherd.   This is what happens when one can breed for just one qualtiy (winning in the ring) with no consideration or a very low amount of consideration for temperament or working ability.   Somehow it seems to me that they've decided that movement is the utimate goal to achieve and this is why now they are so extremely angulated. (IMHO)  I would love someone to explain why on earth a dog is bred to move in that manor...like where on earth is the form to function there? 

Just my humble opinion

Lynn

www.spruceviewfarms.com

Chicki, that is exactly it.  And I am one of the few that does not subscribe to that mindset. 

I work my dogs in many venues to the best of my ability.  He's started on his CDX and we've begun training for utility...we're hitting bumps in the road due to my current ineptness rather than my dog's inability to do the work (he LOVES scent work...but I've never had to teach it before).  We'll never do the UDX because I'm admittedly too lazy and don't care enough about points....we will however be working towards our MACH (hopefully multiple MACHs) and our VST.

I value a dog I can work with, because I want to do more than show in conformation.

AKC reg. and OFA, and/or some candy-ass agility, CD, Rally title, Canine Good Citizen or not, is not a good reason to breed a GSD.

Get out there and try running a dog to a MACH 12 and then tell me how candy ass Agility is.  :-p  It's not an easy sport, and I don't belittle the work of others that choose to run in other sports....it's not as easy as some would like to make it out to be.  A CGC is not grounds for breeding, nor is a CD....however give me a MACH VST UD dog....I don't think that's anything to sneeze at.  They're hard work too.

About the only thing you do working your dogs is clearing buildings !!!

 XEPH..DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME TRYNG TO ARGUE WITH THOSE PEOPLE...THEY THINK THEY KNOW IT ALL!! 

They will tell you again a again the same things..cause they had a friend they knew personnally..his name was Max Von Stephanitz!!

They can't accept the fact that there are multiple sides to a GSD.  For them a GSD can look like shit as long as he has a good grip and a good drive then you and only then you can breed them..Most of them don't know a damn thing about conformation anyway...

And please don't tell them about AKC titles...they don't think shit of it ..only SV titles are good..

I saw Full Throttle at the Canadian National.He is a VERY good exemple of the standard..very clean and a exceptional gait.very good back, very good angle..I would take him any time in my my breeding program if I have a bitch that would go with him..Can't wait to see what he will produce..

I also saw Boss in person a month ago..ACTUALLY MY BITCH IS PREGNANT AND WE ARE VERY EXCITED ABOUT THIS LITTER.. Boss is a very masculine dog with a strong temperament. I had a chance to be with him for two days  and have enjoy every minutes..Very calm and assertive with an exceptional conformation. Everything you look in a stud..

If you like Am. GSD type..it's not on this database that you can talk about it..Only working people are welcome on this site. (almost).  We can argue about a lot of things like politics..but Am. GSD is a taboo subject!!

That won't stop me from breeding them tought..Can't stand the roach back, steep croup, bad feet and bad angle of the german type these days (not all but a lot of them)..but they think it's better..what can you do??

This argument is like the Israelo-Palestinian conflict!! It will never end...

Diesel is not areal GSD, but an ASD (from many years of selective downbreeding from the original).  A long sting bean moving, a short steep croup with long lower thigh and pushed forward front, shallow posturnum and small head.  Not what anyone who knows anything believes is a top quality male GSD. 

The last really good, near perfect dog I ever saw in an American AKC/GSDCA showring was Ch. Bar v. Weiherturchen, ROM.  Everything from this dog forward in time in the GSDCA has been downhill and bred down.