GSDCA National in Beaumont - Page 2

Never said any such thing that you are lacking in love and enthusiasm for your dogs.  I'm glad you love the ASDs.  You should keep on breeding them and enjoying them, and showing them.  I view them as hybrids based on incorerect genetic drift and mild mutations.  But the concept hybvrid can be argued.  One thing that can't is that ASD are nothing like the best GSDs at the the top shows in Germany and Europe.  

If you truly love what the ASDs look like and are committed to this breed, then more power to you.  Problem is like a frog thrown in a cold pot of water that is slowly heated, the GSDCA enthusiasts have been incrementally led away to identify with a form of dog that is an aberration, so far from the true GSD that is doesn't qualify as one, now a separate and distinct breed, of which 95% cannot compete succesfully in the SV/FCI system.  Don't take my word for it investigate yourself. I have bred top ASD blood with top GSD import blood and gotten nothing, due to geentic suppression in the ASD because of incredible levels of saturated line breeding in the ASDs.

But your dogs are in fact genuine ASDs, just not real GSDs.  Just be honest about what they are. The GSDCA does not even follow their own standard, and certainly not the SV/FCI standard.  There is no use trying to convince a diehard GSDCA member on the folly of their ASD breed compared to the real deal, the west german bred GSD.  Those that have spent a lifetime working their way up the food chain (status system of winning in the showring) to obtain a reputation as a "top breeder" and show winning ASD kennel, could never easily abandon everything they have worked for most of their adult years.  To do so would be to abandon their attained status and worth in the ASD breed and have to decend to the bottom of the GSD status system.  They would have to start completely over, learning the GSD lines from Germany, buying bitchers, making many mistakes by buying expensive culls, etc.  Many years of work it would take to climb the food chain of the SV/FCI system.  I recently talked to a very high status GSDCA owner of many champions who said he has an AKC ASD champion in his kennel that he won't do anything with because the breed is producing so many genetic flaws and problems.  He said he was getting out of ASDs for good and "going true German blood".  And now he has a well known man looking for some good import bitches for him.  I also know of another owner of very top AKC ASD champions that is just getting out of the ASD breed for good because there are so many problems. 

Compare this VA GSD (the real thing) to your 2008 GSDCA grand victor.  Be honest now, which dog is correct to the SV/FCI standard.

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/395083.html

I am honest about what my dogs are (I've got German lines too by the way), they're GSDs.  I DO things with my dog...not schutzhund, as that is not a viable option for me, but I DO things with my dogs.  My dogs are German Shepherd Dogs, as the standard says, as what I do with them says, and as what their bloodlines say.

The SV/FCI has their own troubles with following the standard...every breed does.  Heck, I see a ot of incorrect things in gundogs that go completely against the standard so they can end up with a flashy dog too (excesses in coat and angle).

I still hold the ideal that I will eventually breed animals that I can compete with in both rings (there are some really nice crosses I'd love to swallow up).

Every lover of one specific line thinks their line is the "Real deal".  I think everybody needs to pull their heads out of the sand and recognize that division is getting people nowhere, and we're having issues all around in the breed.

GSDs should not look like frogs.  Nor should they look like hyenas.  Nor should they look like coyotes.

Where's the middle, man?

I have German Showlines, and for sure there are lots of things lacking in this type of dog I like that need to be fixed. I have met many A/CKC dogs that I liked. A good dog to me is a good dog, regardless of the type it is. This male posted is just not my type of dog. Not to say he doesn't have excellent temperament or a desire to work in some capacity, who knows, but again, just not my type of male.

You know, AIR, your post made me think of the GV that won in '06, also a Trafalgar dog.  Trafalgar's Premium Blend "Mocha".  I didn't dislike him, but I didn't like him either.  He didn't "Speak" to me.  I found his structure appealing, but he lacked in personality.

Not a bad animal, just not for me, so I think I understand what you're saying

There is no need for any divison.  You can have both ASDs and GSDs if you like.  But if you try to compete with ASDs in the SV/FCI system you will either not be able to or will get no where.  How about comparing this years 2008 grand victor to VA Dux listed above.  Tell me which dog is worth more money and a better dog in view of the SV/FCI standard?  It is very simple, ASDs have little of no value on the world market, only the GSD from West German bloodlines do.  This is simple economics, simple market basics.  When was the last time someone from a top kennel in west Germany called you up or any GSDCA ASD stop stud dog owner asking to ship a bitch for breeding?  Answer is NEVER.  When you understand why you will understand what I am talking about.  Course if you are happy with ASDs why concern yourslef with this or use a forum like this.  95% plus of the folks who use this forum are committred to the SV/FCI system and GSDs, either WL or SL, but these folks accept the SV/FCI system.

But not everybody FOLLOWS the SV/FCI standard...some go with the AKC...and by the way, I'd say Dux doesn't really follow the SV standard either...not with that rear...or that front...or that topline.  Heck I think he comes closer to the AKC standard xD  At least until you'd se ehim move.

If you haven't noticed, the world market isn't really of concern for the Amline breeders.  Nobody CARES if some top kennel in Germany calls them and asks for stud service for their german bitch.

I like GERMAN SHEPHERD DOGS, Preston.  I try my best to look at the whole of the breed, and not parts of it.  It might take me awhile, but I know I'll get what I'm working for if I breed right, work hard, and have a little luck (yeah, I said it, luck).

I don't disagree with the SV/FCI standard...but apparently the judges do, because what's winning (in the American AND German rings) don't match what the standards are sellin'

If you had a chance to own VA Dux or the new GSDCA grand vistor, which dog would you choose. It's that simple.

Hi Xeph,

Maybe that it what it is. There are those things I posted about him that I don't like, yes. But, just looking at the overall dog (based only on the photo I can see) he just doesn't hold my attention. There is nothing that draws me to him. Thank you for not taking offense to my previous posts, too.

It's really not.  I'd have to meet both dogs first, and REALLY see what they do.  I don't personally know Dux, nor do I personally know Diesel.

Temperament is my top priority, followed by health, followed by structure.  So show me what they can do in person, and then I'll tell ya.

And there's nothing to take offense to AIR :-)  It's true, sometimes there are dogs....top dogs or otherwise where you just kinda go "Eh....yeah, ok."

Heck, I felt that way about Dallas too, but holy WA did I love Hatter!!