How can you really assess a dogs nerves? - Page 2

Absolutely Gustav....German Shepherds are changing and I think not for the good...OVERALL...I think their drives are being taken out of them...We...Who love our breed and in particular us breeders...need to be very selective and not always stick to what the norm is...Another words...Think Out of the Box...

Titles aren't everything...They're good...but are just a tool for breeders...Not everyone can evaluate a dog and therefore there must be rules set up for everyone to follow...

A Good Dog is a Good Dog no matter what...But you must be able to tell that it's a good dog...

But a good dog to one person isn't to another...

A lot of people talk about the protection aspect of assessing nerves but there are a lot of other things really important to me. Beyond just the protection, gun fire, corrections aspect my goal is to have dogs I can take to my husband's elementary classroom for visits (just did this morning with a dog dressed like Santa, 23 wild screaming kids!), walk in parades where they are in tight proximity to loud crowds, horses, weird/loud/smelly machines/vehicles.  Can they walk calmly on a normal leash and collar through a busy intersection with lots of pedestrian traffic and wait in line for an ice cream cone?  Can I have them off leash in my house or outside at the cottage with friends and family coming and going and not have to crate them or hide them away?  Can they be quiet and calm in a crate at a dog show or other performance event where dogs are literally stacked on top of each other?  Can I take the dog to work and have him sleep quietly under my desk in a "weird" environment with lots of "strangers" coming and going?  Like Gustav said, a lot of weaknesses can be disguised, or just plain don't matter when the dog lives in a kennel and only competes in SchH where he has a large field to himself to perform each time.  I expect a dog that can pass SchH and SDA trials and show strong fight and a natural protective instinct but that very same dog must be comfortable in my small house in the city with all the people and traffic that comes with my lifestyle, know when to turn it on and turn it off.  From day one I expose my puppies to a new place, a new thing, and new people every day.  A cold pond, a bridge over a busy road, an elevator, open-backed stairs, inside offices, outside in a construction zone, a metal grate, a slippery lino floor, fireworks show, riding in a small tippy boat, etc. 

 I agree with Gustav, environmental testing a dog/pup will give the best insight into a dogs overall stength of nerve. However, experience is needed in judging a dogs character when intoducing it to new situations, footing or sounds. I have no problem with a dog that is a little hesitant when it is intoduced to something new the first couple times. However, any signs of fear, panic or strong avoidance would most likely cause me to pass on a dog. It's all about reaction and the ability to move on.

Testing drive and courage should only be done by someone who knows what they are doing. IMO courage should be tested without pumping a dog up in prey drive, it gives a false sense of how a dog may handle a threat or pressure. This is why it's important to have someone who knows how to read a dog and test one.


In most cases a dog that doesn't pass the first test, will not  pass the second test. 

I'm going to respectfully disagree with Q man on the statement that drive is being bred out of the modern GSD.  It is my belief that our quest for "prey" dogs that work like a mal is causing alot of our problems.  With the latest craze for a super flashy sport dog, it seems we are breeding animals that are on the tipping point of neurotic.  I have seen more, kennel walking, non stop circling, tail chewing and bucket destruction in the past 10 years than I have ever seen before.  Ya they work like the devil and have serious flash. But what happened to the GSD that could quietly lie in his or her kennel, go on to the feild, light up like a christmas tree and then spend the evening by the family fireside?  I think alot of us ( myself included) are passing up those dead heads ( good nerve) and chosing dogs that are on the edge.  I know for a fact I am guilty of it....  Sadly poor nerve is fairly easy to hide with our current training . In the old days the kick and stick methods immediately weeded out the dogs that were border line.  

Your dog sounds handler soft, opposite of a "hard" dog. Has nothing to do with his relationship to the helper. Has nothing to do with nerve. If a 60+ year old man got in my face, I would be scared I would hurt him, but if my dad got in my face, I would probably take a step back. I have had a few dogs that are handler soft/sensitive, that would bite live and be confident. Also, keep in mind. Some dogs grow up on the field in protection, and this is where they feel confident. They have always won. Off the field is their nemesis. Not saying your dog is either or anything. Get insight from the people you train with. Tell them to be honest. Many times, people sugarcoat things to spare the owners feelings.

Never yet found it to be the DOG which  "disguises" a below-par
nervous reaction;  all to do with PEOPLE, what they want out of
that dog, how much excuse they are prepared to make , etc.

You are right Hundmutter, it is the people who disguises the dogs outward reactions stimuli, whether it be show or sport....the problem for me is that shows and sport was SUPPOSED to be venues to showcase dogs to be bred to, so that the breed remains strong! If the requirements and standards keep being lowered, and the judges reward training and handling at the expense of the dogs natural performance, and finally if some Judges are so one dimensional in their knowledge of the breed......well presto!.....you have countless dogs that are not sound mentally or physically being flocked to for breeding. And I see so called knowledgable people doing it all the time.

brynjulf

i have said this before, but its worth saying again....."when was the last time you heard anyone talking about intelligence in the breed?"
the gsd, in years past, was always known for its extreme intelligence and trainability.  nowadays all you hear is talk about drives, drives, drives.
and i have said before......"there comes a time when intelligence takes the back seat & drives take the wheel."

there have been a number of discussions on nerves, thresholds, drives, true working ability & dogs bred for sport.  personally, i don't see
anything wrong with sport dogs, if that's what folks want.........so long as we don't glut the breed with this sort of dog.  i'm afraid that is kind
of what has happened.  there are still true working dogs to be found, with solid nerves and real working ability.  i believe it is up to the purists
to ensure that these dogs remain available, but you won't find many of them on the schh field.  even the sport folks, at some point, will have
to infuse some real working blood else they will self-destruct.  it seems like more folks are "waking up" to the difference in the two.  it seems
like we are able to have more discussion on the difference between the two without the sport folks getting all defensive.  as long as the lure
of points & podium takes presidence, we will continue to see folks breeding prey monsters.  hopefully, this situation will resolve itself over
time.  :)
pjp

Great information. Keep it coming please. Really want to learn more on this subject.