HEARTWORMS IN DOGS//DOGS TESTING POSITIVE CONCERN - Page 3

Jamille, I only speak from experience. A daschund was brought to me to find a home for, he was 3 years old. They told me he had been on heartguard but that it was due. I gave him his heartguard, proper dosage. The next morning he was vomiting, extremely lethargic so I rushed him to the vet. The vet pulled blood, listened to his chest and did xrays. Apparently he had a pretty serious infestation of heartworms, the previous owners had lied. He was in intensive care for 3 days, the heartworms had broke of in a mass die off and clogged his arteries and caused an embolism. He passed.

I no longer give any dog HW prevention without a HW test within the last 30 days unless the dog is under 6 months old. Being in Texas, Everything, including the cats get HW prevention. I prefer Revolution ( Selmectin)

Therese.

Shandra, I'm being argumentative I'm just really confused on this topic. Let's say if you took the dog to the vet for a test first and found the heartworms. What would he have used to treat it with? In the case of my sister's dog it was Ivomectin. Same thing in HW preventative. In which case wouldn't he have had the same thing happen anyway? I know it's hard to tell this over the internet but I am truly not being snotty. Just trying to "get" this whole thing.

I understand and I dont take offense :)
Selmectin is safe to use in a HW positive dog. It uses the trade name Revolution It does not contain Ivermectin but it does contain a derivative. I have used it in seriously HW nfested dogs without any problems. If I get a dog that is HW positive, they go on Revolution and vitamins for at least 3 months to clear the microfilia in the blood. Another HW test is pulled and if the free microfilia count is down enough they are started on heartguard.  If not they stay on revolution another 3 months. The massive die off of Microfilia as well as the heartworms is to much and tends to cause more complications more frequently. Personally, I prefer using Revolution over other products. It prevents fleas, ticks ( altho not as well on ticks) Ear mites, sarcoptic mange mites and helps kep the system clear of round worms. It is safe to use on pups and kittens as young as 8 weeks, It is also safe for pregnant and lactating bitchs. I have used it many many times to clear up Sarcoptic mange in rescues. Works better than dips for sure. Use it once, wait 2 weeks and use it again, walla no more mange. I have been using it since I first learned of it about 7 years ago and have not had a dog test positive for HW yet. In SE Texas that is a wonderful thing lol I have gotten high HW Positive dogs, put them on revolution and within 2 years they are HW free. The heartworm has a relatively short lifespan of about 3 years. It seems as tho the life span is shortened to about 2 years with the use of Selmectin. Using Selmectin, The subadult ( juvenile) HW do not mature to reproduce, the microfilia is kept clear  and the adult die off slowly and naturally removing the chance of clogged arteries and embolisms. Here is a good information link on it. You have to get it from a vet in the USA but I order mine from Australia its a weee bit cheaper that way  :)  http://www.petshed.com/articles/all-about-revolution-for-dogs.html

Therese

That should read Selamectin, I didnt realise I wasnt hitting the "a" lol

Shandra, thanks for the information. What has your experience been with other types of worms besides round for your dogs on this?

I dont particularly care for this product for Hooks and it has no effect on tapes at all. I prefer panacur for hooks and whips, droncit for tapes. With dogs that have an unknown load of worms, I prefer the first worming to be with Strongid ( especially puppies), It is a little milder on the system, then panacur and again in 2 weeks. I was talking with one of the local vets last week and asked him about the safety of panacur in young pups. He told me to go buy "Safeguard" it is the same thing as panacur and dose according to weight. He said that with worms that pass the placenta barrier, they seem to have a resistance to the panacur or strongid in newborn pups. He said to actually get rid of the worms that they get in vitro, you would have to triple the dosage of panacur. I have not done that, seems a little to much to me. In the past tho, when I have a litter of pups ( rescues) I put them on 3 days of double strength panacur to clear hooks. Another local vet had recommended that and it has worked for me. From what he explained, The strongid and panacur do not actually kill the worms, the medication paralyses the mouth parts, detaching them from the intestinal wall and allowing them to pass thru the system.  You would be amazed at the gut load of worms a pup can be carrying without even knowing it. I worm everything in my house every 3 months. Might seem excessive to some but I live in the country and have wildlife that run thru my yards at night. Even if my dogs were to never leave the yard they are still going to be exposed. I prefer not to let them get to much of a load. Adding Apple Cider Vinegar ( with the mother, available at health food stores) to the water helps prevent the internal parasites, it sets up a hostile environment for the parasite to florish.

Therese

I agree with almost everthing Shandra said except the Revoluton...I would not touch Revolution with a 10 foot pole.....there is no way on this earth I will put a chemical in my dog, that kills 5 different things including ear mites....drug companies dont care if it eats up the whole blood vessel system or the liver or the pancreatic system, including lymph nodes included...How do you think it kils all those at one time,,,the latter effects might not show right now and u get a negative result on worms  but in a few years your gonna have no dog or one with big cancers inside .I dont trust it or the manufacturor...

Ivermectin is bad enough, but has been around a long time..and you must be frugal with it, and not overdose it.....I dont want a dog filled with gobs of drugs....the fewer I can get by with is my choice....I raise the roof when my owners of my pups forget and let the vet sell them Revoultion....in my contract it says    No  Revolution.....I have discussed this with three vets I trust and are older vets and know some of the real warnings out about these harsh drugs.....That is MO......

Ive been raising dogs for over 35 years without it, never had a case of worms or any diabiliting disease,,,,,and haave used the same regiment all these years.....Drs and Vets slay me           tHERE ARE A LOT OF OTHER WAYS TO PREVENT WORMS AND  ALL PARASITES  LIKE sHANDRA SAID......APPLE CIDAR VINEGAR   IS GOOD FOR MANY A THING  INCLUDING FUNGUS IN EARS AND OLIVE OIL IS THE MIRACLE CURE FOR SKIN PROBLEMS AND CRANBERRY IS ANOTHER GOOD PREVENTATIVE..

I use all the same wormers Shandra mentioned and from 3 weeks on and I also us Albon.......for cocci preventative or treatment....

Your experience was with a dashund that you knew nothing about....of course , if you dont do proper checks the worms break loose and can do just what it did.....I dont know about the dog with that kind of problems as I never had that problem..Onlly what I do and how to not get to that place in my kennel....

Dogs are like people...what effects one, may not work for the other....very weak dogs, and sickly , poorly bred dogs. can die of kennel cough, that normally can be gotten over by most healthy dogs....dogs have same measurement of health just like humans...

A dog breed , inbred , and weak in genetics, and not feed properly , will react and may have major ongoing problems not known...I would test that dog...my dogs dont need testing......I know them inside out........and when I haave bred an outside male brought into the program from another blood line , I have only bred once, and didnt like what I got...so back to the old lines..........when they are gone, Ill be gone tooo.....you dont fix something that aint broke..................................bad english   but you get the drift?????????????

Hiya YR :)
I had forgotten to mention albon lol that stuff is greeeeeeeat! I used it frequently when I was raising chickens. I still swear by the vinegar and also garlic in the water. I prefer to g as natural as possible, I do not like using chemicals.

You know your dogs and bloodlines, the dogs that I dealt with were all rescues, very limited or no background on the animal at all. I have to agree on a few points about the revolution, 1 major thing I dont like about it was when I would use it on certain dogs, after I applied it the dogs would react like it hurt their skin.  The vets around here have me so paranoid about Ivermectin that perhaps I havent given it enough of a chance. Have you ever heard of a product called Eprinex? Offlabel use was for chickens, it is used for cattle. I had asked my vets about it but none had experience with it offlabel for chickns or dogs.. It is also an Ivermectin derivative, I would use it on the chickens for mites as well as worms.

This has been  a very educational thread, everyone has different experiences with products and by sharing those experiences, we help each other learn the best ways to care for our dogs.

YellowRose, I had been told by a couple of the vets in this area that if I were to use Ivermectin on the dogs, that I need to make sure to include an additional source of vit C since the ivermectin reduces the bodies ability to produce it. What are your thoughts on that?

Therese

Personally, since I keep all of mine on a preventative, I see absolutely no reason to test any members of my pack-even if I accidentally missed a monthly dose. But, if I was intent to purchase a dog or young puppy, a test for heartworms (as well as other parsites) would be part of the deal-even if I had to pay most of the cost. It can be sucessfully treated of course, but is much easier to prevent.

That said, we still take a stool sample annually for each dog and bitch, for what it is worth. Using the heartworm preventative alone we have never experienced any infestation of any type with the adults. The same cannot be said for the puppies, who are dewormed on a regular basis until they are mature enough to receive a preventative.

Bob-O

Vitamin C in the natural form is very now useful for many things...they are discovering that it is good to give a nice dosage to all dogs., especially ones that have a hip problem...but to keep from having a hip problem ,,collagen must stay in tact and vit C in natural form  not chemical......that comes from raw veggie,  partially cooked, and raw meat,,,,,,liver ,chicken wings , necks and backs    and raw milk........
Dogs make vit c which humans do not,,,but most dogs today with all the Ivermec and wormers we give and flea preventatives, , no the poor dogs production is disabled and doesnt work so welll.....the omega 3 and omega 6 from fish  is given thru salmon oil or fish caps    use that too.....My vet warned me about the sperm count on my male , that had been treated with Ivermec for his dermadectic when he was 1 year old.....He has sired one litter., and I do need to check that , before I breed him again ,.....for my own knowledge...

If you do not know how to use Ivermec and your vet hasnt trained you or assisted you in this , you dont need to be doing it....Ive had 28 years and three vets walking behind me to educate me....I am very careful with it, and I do not ever test anything on my place....like I said   I know my dogs are given proper dose and they dont havae any infestation......I use Panacur and Pyrantel Paomate and  a tape worm Paraq--------if I ever get a problem there....occasionally a dog will pick up a flea on an outing or another dog comes in contact with mine, and all they have to do is swallow a few times a healthy dose of the excreament and whalallhhhh     tapes....easy to get rid of and they arenot deadly like the other worms are......nasty looking and I dont want them   but out the gozubo they go ......and I learned being in the country all about the whipworms;    deer on my property .   Never had one until I moved to the country..........deer ,skunks, u name it.., cougars, panthers   , and we even havae a brown Bear in Troup , Texas......they havaent killed him yet, but he's out there.......so the whip worm came into being as the deer are plentiful in my back acreage in the fall and winter....