How much would you pay? - Page 12

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Rik

by Rik on 08 September 2009 - 23:09

Hello Bob, you found a way that worked for you and I congratulate you for having what it takes to make it work.

Also, whether you will admit it or not, there was some "good" fortune involved.

No can absolutely guarantee that every pup from any litter will have what it takes to be successful. If this is what you are arguing then I will respectfully choose to agree to disagree with you.

I have a friend with a bitch from 6 generations of OFA certified dogs. 8 of 9 pups in her litter OFA'd. This is excellent percentages that anyone can boast of.

However, one could have done exactly the same amount of research and still picked the one pup who was dysplastic.

You said it best when you stated that one can "stack the deck in their favor" by research and study, but no one has a "formula" for assuring that every pup they choose will turn out perfect. 

Rik

4pack

by 4pack on 08 September 2009 - 23:09

Bob reading your post gave me a headache with all of the errors, perhaps you already hit the margaritas earlier? What part about "even with planning and good genetics" pups are still a crap shoot are you not getting? I have seen people research for years, change their mind 100x's, keep looking for just 1 slightly better litter, finally get a pup, and it's garbage. I'm talking out of National Champion Ring dogs. It's not through lack of planning, uneducation, or not knowing dogs. Genetics can throw anything at you.

I'm a good puppy picker, even just pointing out my favorites in friends litters, they always have nice drives but I can't see or know what health issues will arise or temperament issues the dog will develope as it grows. Not all issues are man made and not all faults can be traced back to the handler.

I like you, prefer to raise my dogs from pups but I won't begrudge another for buying a full grown proven dog.

Sitasmom, I'm glad you got your dog and you are happy with her. The only persons opinion about price that matters is yours and if you are happy with what you paid, then that is that!

by michael49 on 09 September 2009 - 02:09

Bob,
        I'm sure you are a nice guy also, pursuing your goals with hands on experience the best teacher always.Perhaps you're right I just don't get it, but I'll say this in response.All the dogs I own with the exception of one I raised from pups,I think I know them about as well as anyone can.I don't consider myself to be a breeder of extreme working dog lines,nor do I care to be.Why did I breed a litter of pups,because there are people that actually want this type of dog.Not everyone wants a schutzhund dog or a ringsport dog,some people actually want a dog thats bred to be a family companion.Not everyone that wants a gsd wants one with a deep full grip,nerves of steel,high drives and over abundance of energy,some of us actually aren't interested in participating in dog sports.For those of you that are,I have no problem with that,for those of us that do not,I think we have that right as well, and have the right to own dogs that suit our needs.Tell me this Bob,why do you breed and how many pups have you produced,and what were those pups bred to do.Think about this Bob sport dog people are not the  majority of gsd owners, I,m sure your intentions are good for your breeding goals,but you know it is possible that its you that just doesn't get it. Enjoy your  drink Bob and  respond to my questions as I did yours.                    Michael

by SitasMom on 09 September 2009 - 02:09

very many of the dogs bob preaches about end up at shelters where the are deemed "dangerous" and killed.............

not my idea of sucessful breeding.......

MaggieMae

by MaggieMae on 09 September 2009 - 02:09


Michael 49 -- EXACTLY 

Rik

by Rik on 09 September 2009 - 02:09

sitasmom, I will have to disagree with you here. I have talked with Bob privately and found him to be of the highest "order" when it comes to the welfare of the breed.

I disagree with him that it is possible to insure that every pup will turn out 100%, but in no way do I disagree with his methods or what he has found to work for him.

People who spare no expense in the pursuit of their goals, as both you and Bob have done, should not be faulted.

You both have different goals, different ideals, but in the end the GSD is your purpose. And both of you have invested your finances and time where your heart is.

I am in the market for a W/L GSD, if I lived closer to you I would be all over your choice.

If I was closer to Bob, then I would be up his butt for one of his dogs (maybe to never be seen again).

But no one can deny that he has spared no expense to bring together (from 2 continents) what he felt was the best in the GSD World.

So, how about we just all do what we think best for the GSD (with character first in mind) and call a truce and an end to this never ending debate.

Rik

Bucko

by Bucko on 09 September 2009 - 04:09

I don't see why you would wish she were three years younger.  You can only put her into your line once, then you move on down the line.  Getting her older means having the one chance you need to have a foundation and not having to pay for her to be a money machine for many litters.  This is the best situation if you want to build a line.

by SitasMom on 09 September 2009 - 10:09

If she were younger, I would get to enjoy her for longer.......that's all.
She's a fine dog and she will make a wonderful addition to our family.
Its not all about business.


by Bob McKown on 09 September 2009 - 14:09

Okay I,ll go thru this for you all:

Before I begin i will appoligize for the bad grammer which you may read, I was,nt aware that i was being graded on a home work assignment.
 
Michael:

I,ve only been at this about 14 years this is a drop in the bucket to most, I,ve created 3 litters the first 2 are all working in Sch,search and rescue,police and even a assistance dog for a quadrepolegic (4pack i,m sure it,s spelled wrong) Several are with police officers as family dogs but all have been put thru obedience training all live in the handlers homes, 1 is a house dog to a close freind who started schutzhund with the dog and the dog showed good drives thru the work but because of a medical condition of the handler she had to retire her self the dog has the drives for a good competition dog and lives in her home with her family with other dogs and is a wonderful dog( the owner is very aware of her responsibilities as the owner of a working dog that probably helps when placeing the dogs)  

These dogs were sold for 250.00 and 4 were given to handlers free and the police dog was donated free also because the sheriffs dept could not come up with the 7000.00 that a broker wantted for a green dog. He was 2  years old and showed very good promise in the work I was keeping him to repalce my Axel and after i talked it over with my wife we donted him to help so as you see money is the least of my priorities with my dogs.

The last litter I was the supplier of the male to a fellows female but i was very much involved in the background,previous litter,ect... you know my rant. I was told at birth the puppies were either born still or were born with no genitalia or lived very shortly. Now i wasnt in control of the female after breeding so I can,t rule out some type of outside enviromental issue but it came as a very bad time for me I was depressed over the whole litters demise.

So i hope you got what info you were looking for there.

Sitasmom:

NONE of my dogs have ever ended up in shelters nore will they end up in shelters and in most cases (there are a rare few)  most shelter workers are about as knowledgable (again probably not spelled right 4pack) about evaluations on working line dogs as I am about gynocology!!!. so it doesnt suprise me that working line dogs get put down in shelters.

And if your off handedly trying to say MY dogs end up in shelters your DEAD wrong.

To everyone else who can,t read(possible again my bad grammer)

You can search thru  high heaven never did I say every dog out of a litter will be a success what I said was with good planning ,knowledge,background work, diligence you can find and produce good dogs or pick a good pup... DID YOU ALL GET THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




And Elvis has left the building.   Thank you Thank you verry muchh   


P.S. all dogs bred were OFA good hips Clear elbows and titles except for the first female who was not titled but had been worked by several helpers so I was aware of her potential(again 4pack ya i know it,s not spelled right)


by michael49 on 09 September 2009 - 16:09

Bob,
      Nothing more to be said on my part,shall we depart this thread,as internet aquiantances that agree to disagree.Each to his own as for how we go about our lives and goals as for as the dogs are concerned. If this is agreeable with you,then enough said on both sides,let sleeping dogs lie[a little pun intended here],until we meet again on another thread,hopefully with a little more respect and understanding of each other.
                                                                                                                              Michael






 


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