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by trace755 on 01 March 2009 - 01:03
Check out the vids posted by Lobolonewulf on youtube from 2008 USA Sieger. Start with this one first
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uwg8dDOSj0I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uwg8dDOSj0I
by jletcher18 on 01 March 2009 - 01:03
make me want to take my workingline dog to the sieger show. would only get sg (if im lucky) but the bitework would be in place.
would love to see the bitework from other countries sieger shows.
john
would love to see the bitework from other countries sieger shows.
john
by VonIsengard on 01 March 2009 - 02:03
Asking "why people bother talking about a showline who can work" is like saying "why do people bother talking about a V rated workingline dog". Why? Because they are quality dogs, that's why. What an utterly ridiculous statement. Dog's like Triumph's Gucci or Pascha vom Seewolf ( who competed at the BSP at 2 years of age), hey, they're black red, why bother, right? And all those stunning WL dogs I've been coming across and asking about, am I wasting my time because they are workings and therefore can't be good looking? This is a 2 way street, right? If you have it stuck in your head that one type of dog is crap I feel sorry for you because you will miss out on some good dogs in your lifetime. Damned if I'll stick my nose up at a correct dog who can do the work regardless of what color they are.
john- you go for it! I'll cheer you on. I know it sounds terribly shocking, but there are actually people who love showlines who are equally disgusted with poor work performances. There need to be a few expectional dogs to shame the the owners/handlers/trainers of the wimps.
john- you go for it! I'll cheer you on. I know it sounds terribly shocking, but there are actually people who love showlines who are equally disgusted with poor work performances. There need to be a few expectional dogs to shame the the owners/handlers/trainers of the wimps.
by jletcher18 on 01 March 2009 - 05:03
KC,
not only will i do. i will do it both ways.
funny you mention Gucci. i know Russ and had the pleasure of working Gucci. talk about in your face. my wife owns a gucci granddaughter, very nice, and i am planning on breeding my working female to a gucci son.
have to think big picture. most people who start down this road dont follow it to the end. me, i want to see whats at the end of the road,,, and then keep going.
john
not only will i do. i will do it both ways.
funny you mention Gucci. i know Russ and had the pleasure of working Gucci. talk about in your face. my wife owns a gucci granddaughter, very nice, and i am planning on breeding my working female to a gucci son.
have to think big picture. most people who start down this road dont follow it to the end. me, i want to see whats at the end of the road,,, and then keep going.
john
by ATARTHS on 01 March 2009 - 10:03
Well said KC,
Who could ever argue about the quality of Timo Berrekasten for instance. Is'nt this the kind of quality we should all strive and produce,?, or who could ever argue about the working qualities of Ghandi Arlett, and so on. The standard is there for one breed, the SV does not recognise two lines, there is only one GSD and this is the way it should be. Breeders should not be afraid of change, so long a the aim is towards producing a better breed, in all areas , conformation, working ability, health, and so on.
I always feel proud for our breed whenever I see a gsd either working or showline exceling on the field. Fanatics of either side cannot be afforded by our breed , not with all the health and other issues present.
Who could ever argue about the quality of Timo Berrekasten for instance. Is'nt this the kind of quality we should all strive and produce,?, or who could ever argue about the working qualities of Ghandi Arlett, and so on. The standard is there for one breed, the SV does not recognise two lines, there is only one GSD and this is the way it should be. Breeders should not be afraid of change, so long a the aim is towards producing a better breed, in all areas , conformation, working ability, health, and so on.
I always feel proud for our breed whenever I see a gsd either working or showline exceling on the field. Fanatics of either side cannot be afforded by our breed , not with all the health and other issues present.
by missbeeb on 01 March 2009 - 11:03
I'll stick my head over the parapet!
Not every working line dog can or will be a Mambo or Troll. Not every showline dog can or will be a Zamp or Odin.
The vast majority of us have something inbetween and strive for better. The majority of show people don't work their dogs and the majority of working guys don't show theirs.
There are some very good W/L dogs that could be shown, with success, there may not be an abundance of them, but they are around. There are some showline dogs capable of taking on the best in Sch, again... there may not be an abundance of them, but they are around. It's harder to ascertain how many showline dogs could work, because, often... nobody tries! Yes... all Shepherds should be capable of working... but let's not limit what work is, it doesn't / shouldn't have to include bitework to be real.
In the not too distant future, we may well need each other. There are so many anti dog factions out there, they are organised and determined. If we wish to keep our hobby / sport / pets, we should support each other in our chosen field or at least refrain from slating each other.
Not every working line dog can or will be a Mambo or Troll. Not every showline dog can or will be a Zamp or Odin.
The vast majority of us have something inbetween and strive for better. The majority of show people don't work their dogs and the majority of working guys don't show theirs.
There are some very good W/L dogs that could be shown, with success, there may not be an abundance of them, but they are around. There are some showline dogs capable of taking on the best in Sch, again... there may not be an abundance of them, but they are around. It's harder to ascertain how many showline dogs could work, because, often... nobody tries! Yes... all Shepherds should be capable of working... but let's not limit what work is, it doesn't / shouldn't have to include bitework to be real.
In the not too distant future, we may well need each other. There are so many anti dog factions out there, they are organised and determined. If we wish to keep our hobby / sport / pets, we should support each other in our chosen field or at least refrain from slating each other.
by ATARTHS on 01 March 2009 - 15:03
Missbeeb,
well said I agree with you 100 percent , I would go one step further and say that breeders should focus on producing a mix of both worlds. The day will come that there will be only one gsd line. Some breeders show the way and prove it can be done , the rest of us should believe in it and follow suit. But first of all we should drop our predudice and believe that change brings results. If we go on the way we are , there will be no change and the gap between the lines will only grow bigger and bigger. A visit to Arlett website should convince a lot of people that this is the only way forward, towards the breed Max Stephanitz dreamed of.
well said I agree with you 100 percent , I would go one step further and say that breeders should focus on producing a mix of both worlds. The day will come that there will be only one gsd line. Some breeders show the way and prove it can be done , the rest of us should believe in it and follow suit. But first of all we should drop our predudice and believe that change brings results. If we go on the way we are , there will be no change and the gap between the lines will only grow bigger and bigger. A visit to Arlett website should convince a lot of people that this is the only way forward, towards the breed Max Stephanitz dreamed of.
by Vikram on 01 March 2009 - 15:03
what a hideous idea. We need to straighten the back first
cheers
cheers
by ATARTHS on 01 March 2009 - 17:03
Vikram
Do you have any idea as to why the standard calls for a 23 degree slope on the croup? Have you ever heard that the GSD is a trotting dog required to cover the maximum possible ground with the least possible amount of energy? Do you have any idea what kind of skeleton a long distance runner has to have?
I suggest you get a little bit educated on what is a German Shepherd and how it is supposed to be and then ask this question about straightening the back to yourself.
Do you have any idea as to why the standard calls for a 23 degree slope on the croup? Have you ever heard that the GSD is a trotting dog required to cover the maximum possible ground with the least possible amount of energy? Do you have any idea what kind of skeleton a long distance runner has to have?
I suggest you get a little bit educated on what is a German Shepherd and how it is supposed to be and then ask this question about straightening the back to yourself.
by funky munky on 01 March 2009 - 18:03
Missbeeb, well said i agree fully. liz
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