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by vk4gsd on 27 May 2014 - 22:05
all the thousands of other xian religions are wrong, Mormons? JW's?
trinity or not, bible is literal or not?.....
by beetree on 27 May 2014 - 23:05
The atheist can also be a religion of one. Not a great place to be, but for some, it is all the start they need.
by gouda on 27 May 2014 - 23:05
DO THE THOUSANDS OTHER RELIGIONS AGREE HUNDRED PERCENT WITH THE WORD
John
by vk4gsd on 27 May 2014 - 23:05
by gouda on 27 May 2014 - 23:05
Your giving yourself to much credit.
John
by Red Sable on 27 May 2014 - 23:05
Gouda, what do you think of this?
http://www.israelandstuff.com/jerusalem-christian-site-torched-mere-hours-after-popes-visit
Also curious as to your opinion of the obomination of desolation?
by Shtal on 27 May 2014 - 23:05
Vk4 wrote: ^ exactly my point, you are a defect.
My foundation that is vk4, I have acknowledged that absolute truth exists, and that I know some things to be true. Listen vk4, my point having knowledge the proof that God exists is to determine whether you believe that logic exists. Logical proof would be irrelevant to someone who denies that logic exists. An example of a law of logic is the law of non-contradiction. This law states, for instance, that it cannot both be true that my car is in the parking lot and that it is not in the parking lot at the same time, and in the same way. Next I could examine what I believe about logic. Does logic change? If you believe that logic can change, then for all you know, logic has changed and contradictions are now valid. In that case you could have no problem with contradictions. Listen Vk4, logic exists, that it is unchanging and not made of matter. And I would exam is whether I would believe that logic is universal or up to the individual. Are contradictions invalid only where you are, and only because you say they are, or is this universally true? If you believe that logic is relative, then you don't. If logic does not apply universally, then it does not necessarily apply to this forum, and you could have no problem with any contradictions. And the outcome that it is unchanging, that it is not made of matter, and that it is universal. Truth, knowledge, and logic are necessary to prove ANYTHING and cannot be made sense of apart from God. Therefore...the Proof that God exists is that without Him you couldn't prove anything. Why is God necessary for truth, knowledge, and universal, abstract, unchanging logic? Let’s take a look at knowledge? Unless one knows everything, or has revelation from someone (God) who does, something we don't know could contradict what we think we know. What about definition of truth? If our thoughts are the mere by-products of the electrochemical processes in our evolved brains, you would not get "truth" you would get "brain-fizz." Chemicals do not produce "truth" they just react. As Doug Wilson said, it would be like shaking up a can of Mountain Dew, and a can of Dr. Pepper, opening them, and watching them fizz. Neither fizz is "true," they just are. For truth you need someone (God) who transcends the natural realm. And conclusion: For universal, immaterial, unchanging logic, you need someone (God) who is universal (Psalm 90:2), not made of matter (John 4:24) and unchanging (Malachi 3:6). Without God, who has universal knowledge, we could not know anything to be universally true. Without God, who is Spirit (not made of matter), we could not make sense of immaterial things. Without God who is unchanging (and logic is a reflection of the way He thinks), we would have no basis for expecting logic not to change. Listen closely vk4, the proof does not say that professed unbelievers do not prove things. The argument is that you must borrow from the Christian worldview, and a God who makes universal, immaterial, unchanging laws possible in order to prove anything. This type of logical proof deals with "transcendentals" or "necessary starting points," and the proof is called a "transcendental proof." Any contrary view to the God of Christianity being the necessary starting point for rationality is reduced to absurdity. You have to assume God in order to argue against Him. While this proof is valid, no one needs this proof. One last thing; I said this before the Bible teaches us that there are 2 types of people in this world, those who profess the truth of God's existence and those who suppress the truth of God's existence. The options of 'seeking' God or not believing in God are unavailable. The Bible never attempts to prove the existence of God as it declares that the existence of God is so obvious that we are without excuse for not believing in Him.
Romans 1 vs. 18 - 21 says:
The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities - his eternal power and divine nature - have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.
God does not send people to Hell for denying what they do not know, but for sin against the God that they do know.
by vk4gsd on 27 May 2014 - 23:05
unless like logic you admit that god only exists in your mind like the rules of logic do.
which is a strange thing for a theist to say.
by Red Sable on 27 May 2014 - 23:05
by gouda on 28 May 2014 - 00:05
Wish I knew what was written in that book.I dont like or trust this Pope.
He is a deciever.
John
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