Line fishing with one of my dogs - Page 4

LOL

Which video of BE's dog is being discussed/compared?

Dog in OP is a good dog, I'd like to see more control, 2 years old is old enough to expect a dog to compose itself and turn on/off at the command of the handler. Would be good to see a scenario where the helper isn't agitating the dog and see how he'd react. Also don't see why the dog doesn't have an out...by two a dog shouldn't need to be choked off to build frustration for a bite.

I'm assuming the dog was never taught to bark based on the training preferences of the owner, I'm with some of the others on wanting to hear a good, deep bark, even if the situation presents itself as a prey bite. Some dogs (those beasts that people always claim to have on this website) will bark deep and rhythmic no matter what the situation, other dogs have to be taught that bark and it's definitely much more intimidating than the prey scream. But to each their own.

I would agree with u bw on the second part a good deep bark is more intimidating than a scream u have to listen to the dog and mark the bark . If when the dog is younger u reward on the scream that's what the understands gets him what he wants. First part I don't teach my dogs an out I want the bite to stay till the end. it also keeps the dog focused on the man . If im training a dog for someone else then I train an out if that's what they want but personally I don't want an out

Shows much more power and strength if a dog can out and stay focused on the man. This dog isn't being trained for "real work" in the true sense of the word (by 2 it should already be looking for a PD to work in). If it were...there is no reason for a dog to stay on the bite if/when the suspect is already in handcuffs. A dog that can out, still stay there, bark/guard, and be ready for a re-attack is more impressive IMO. Many lesser dogs without control can work and show in the way the dog in the video was presented. I'm not saying this dog is bad or weak, I do like this dog, but without control, most dogs with decent levels of prey/aggression and half way decent nerves would be able to run that scenario with the same outcome.

A closely kept secret within "real working dogs" and "police dog trainers" is that they actually don't teach an out or control because they're worried about ruining a less than stellar dog and losing the investment they have in the dog. Make a dog control itself, or out, the dog can get worried and start thinking about an out at all times, or how to please the handler rather than staying in the fight. You also don't want the dog to misinterpret a word that the handler says and believe it's an out/call off for some strange reason. A truly good dog...can have control, can have an out, and have no issues staying in the fight. Most people use the reason you gave Yogi...and it's fine, there's definitely truth to it, but I'd still rather see a dog that can out with a verbal command and not need to be frustrated prior to starting the "next round" so to speak.

In certain situations...a verbal out should actually make the dog focus MORE on the man than the chocking off or a forced out...a dog gets frustrated, can redirect onto the handler or whatever is forcing it to lose the grip, IMO...focus on the man is then lost, but in a verbal out, my dog will never take his eyes off the man. But we all see whatever we want to see in our dog's reactions.

This is a snipped of a video, I can upload the whole thing. It's also a reaction to the e collar (you can see the strap of it). If I want to go into detail I can also say it's the sleeve laying around. Because, while he has nice forward aggression he was specifically conditioned to be a sleeve dog. It's multiple things coming together. Everytime I would tell him to revier, for example, he used to look at the sleeve. Confusion, new training, inflammation and e collar (which he only ever wore once before at my obedience trainers about two years ago)... however, if he's on a 10 minute bite, pushing in, really putting his everything into that bite, he is exhausted. I think the longest he was on a bite was about 15-20 minutes. One and the same bite, pushing, driving into the bite. That takes a lot out of a dog, especially when they put all of their energy into that bite. So yeah, sometimes, when he outs, he is so exhausted and in the last couple weeks he exhausted faster than usual. Five to ten minutes into training he was done without having been on the suit for long. That's when I knew something wasn't right and had bloodwork and everything else done. Vet said he was fine to train just not to use any leash pressure. But even without leash pressure he got so hoarse he couldn't bark. So I kept him quiet. After that he was rechecked by the vet and they said he was good to go again. So he trained last Friday (where this video was from) and he spaced out and his voice became hoarse again by the end of the night. So he went back to the vet on Monday and then Tuesday.

That being said, we all know how training goes. Training is NEVER clean and NEVER goes as planned. I want to see one person that has never had to correct their dog, that has never had a dog he didn't have issues with, where there were never any training issues. I want to see a 150% perfect dog that doesn't have any weaknesses whatsoever. I can say with confidence I have good dogs, Dogs that I am proud of but even those dogs have weaknesses. Even the strong ones, the legends had weaknesses. So can we please cut out the whole BS of "I wouldn't continue to train a dog that shows no interest in the helper" because clearly, when you watch all of his videos, EVERY SINGLE ONE that is out there, you can see that he is a good dog and clearly loves to do bitework.
My helper is hard on dogs. He will bring out your dogs weakness whether you like it or not. Even those raved about Bismack dogs have weaknesses. There is no such thing as a dog without weakness. That weakness can be as simple as showing nerve during a Vet exam. So let's cut the whole BS about all this super hard wonder dogs that don't exist. They are living breathing beeings and not machines!

BW: it's this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G28zYO8G5gY

And with that, have a good day :)

 

So now we gonna discuss the noise of dog WTF

Its about the dog do his job proper and the dog in OP does........I don,t care about any noise of the bark. In real street work there is nobody who gives you extra points the quality of the bark........




 

 

Actually...I've spoken to plenty of officers that notice the difference in how quickly a suspect will surrender when a dog is barking outside. The scream that is coming from this dog…would be impossible to replicate without the dog knowing where the decoy is, being in sight of the decoy, and the decoy definitely making prey attraction in some way. Many police departments expect a dog to bark at a building, a car, anything they tell the dog to bark at because that will get suspects to surrender without having to send the dog and therefore putting the dog and the handler in danger. Most people wouldn’t equate a dog screaming like that to even being a dog if they were hiding somewhere and hearing that noise…but a bark, that’s different and will get people to surrender without a fight.

BE…yeah, it’s easy to see that the dog is exhausted. IMO…handler/helper error there in continuing to work the dog to that state at which it actively turns away from the helper and shows signs of wanting to leave. I’d prefer he stayed there and at least silent guarded or tried to get some noise out with clacking, but he looks to be well past that point too. Again, don’t know anything about KNPV or why you’d work a dog to that point of exhaustion that it clearly starts exhibiting bad habits, but to each their own, it doesn’t tell me much about the quality of the dog as most “real scenarios” wouldn’t last long enough to exhaust a dog to that point and it doesn’t seem fair or fruitful to do so in training, but that’s just my opinion, if all you’re training for is to get a video, there’s not much wrong you can do.

 

I have never heard about this have seen many screaming LE dogs with not a deep loud bark,...

 

Global there is a difference in the sound of the bark  from malinois and  a GSD. Malinois/DS mostly have  not that deep bark what a GSD has.

Bw in the real world if u give out verbally in a situation where things are still maniac struggle is still going on u run a real risk of someone else been bit so better to control with hands on . An out on a field with a decoy standing still with no fuss is very easy to do. and u can't compare the two one is a situation with no control and and the other is very controlled.

BE…yeah, it’s easy to see that the dog is exhausted. IMO…handler/helper error there in continuing to work the dog to that state at which it actively turns away from the helper and shows signs of wanting to leave. I’d prefer he stayed there and at least silent guarded or tried to get some noise out with clacking, but he looks to be well past that point too. Again, don’t know anything about KNPV or why you’d work a dog to that point of exhaustion that it clearly starts exhibiting bad habits, but to each their own, it doesn’t tell me much about the quality of the dog as most “real scenarios” wouldn’t last long enough to exhaust a dog to that point and it doesn’t seem fair or fruitful to do so in training, but that’s just my opinion, if all you’re training for is to get a video, there’s not much wrong you can do.
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Like I said, usually he doesn't do it. That's when I noticed that something wasn't right. Luckily I now know what is going on with him. Because he never should have been exhausted like this to begin with since it wasn't done on purpose.