Would you breed a blue mal? - Page 5

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by ValK on 22 October 2019 - 12:10

perhaps saying about trait's link to color, i wasn't explicitly clear. i didn't mean temperament aspect. rather deficiencies of dog's health and abilities to be potent for performance and reproduction.
there must be a reason other, than just aesthetic to see those dogs as unfit in long term prospect of breeding.

the original question was about use for breeding the mali with non standard color.
that dog in picture isn't mali, neither pitbull. for me looks pretty ugly but leaving aside aesthetic - that dog (even if he has outstanding temper for protection work) do not have physical attributes to be effective in confrontation against adult man.

Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 22 October 2019 - 12:10

ValK I think that probably in the first place there were very few 'naturally occurring' Blues in the original dogs brought together to develop the GSD, right at the start of the breed. As blues and livers DID appear, there was concern, reinforced by developing 'knowledge' about genetics, that, in the early days, led to concern that these colours, being 'diluted' versions of the normal stronger pigments of grey, black or black & tan, would give various inferior characteristics. Given that some harmful, even fatal, colour linked factors were already known to have existed in older breeds, e.g. merle. That this has not really been born out in fact since, with blue dogs being as likely to be both intelligent and healthy as any other coloured GSD specimen, does not matter when fanciers are 'used to' rejecting these dilute colours. Hence they have continued to prefer and accept the status quo, without any strong attempts to get the colours written in to the Standards. Knowing that, as Sunsilver pointed out, there are some money-minded people prepared to select for and breed large numbers of such unofficial colours for pet profits and we can hardly be surprised that those who love the GSD for itself, rather than the money that 'rare' (ho ho) examples can bring in, remain reluctant to deliberately produce more of them.  Not to forget that the chances of keeping illnesses / bone defects, etc, in the blues that would otherwise have been bred away from in standard colours are high, because breeding 'for colour' uses a less wide gene-pool. Hence a greater number of cases of Epilepsy known in blue and white 'bred en masse' lines.

Blue GSDs do seem to be occasionally prone to at least one condition that seems colour-linked, there is a kind of allopecia (baldness) that affects them.  I do not know of others off-hand.

 

I imagine that similar thinking has prevailed among breeders of Malinois.

by apple on 22 October 2019 - 13:10

Valk,
The more you comment, the more apparent it is that you are not well informed. Regarding your comment that the photo showing Duco II indicates he doesn't have the physical attributes to fight a man is ridiculous. I have read what his handler said about the dog. The dog weighed 88+ pounds and was 25.2" at the withers. He had a very powerful bite which got stronger the longer he bit. He was extremely dominant and had extreme pain tolerance. There are not and haven't ever been GSDs of this caliber. I don't think you and some others understand the intensity of these dogs. As has been mentioned, within even the working lines of the GSD, too much emphasis has been put on physical appearance at the expense of working ability. This was true from the early founding of the breed. A very early dog that every GSD goes back to, Roland von Starkenburg, was considered a model for the breed because of his structure. This was accomplished through intense inbreeding. The elephant in the room is that Roland had a weak temperament. The entire history of the GSD is filled with examples of dogs being bred or not selected due to structure. It is the same model as the GSD show lines but to a lesser degree. Dogs like Duco II and the video of the dog I posted in the Gringo Janaka post have so much intensity, their structure does not impact in any way their ability to fight a man. In the video I posted, the decoy was barely able to get up. The dog folded him and it looked like the decoy was almost knocked out. I would love to see you fight a dog like Duco II or Evil and see if you have the same opinion.
emoryg

by emoryg on 22 October 2019 - 15:10

Not bragging, but some of the GSD I worked with could play with suits and sleeves with the best of them. You could even slip the equipment and they would bring it back for more fun and games, then carry it back to the patrol car and be so proud! Now, if I could have only taught them to carry the criminals back to the car or ambulance. Oh wait, that’s what the backup officer(s) are for! My own dog will also carry the equipment. He’s just as proud!

by Hired Dog on 22 October 2019 - 16:10

Apple, I just saw the video of Evil...yeah, without a suit, he would fold you in half like a napkin and you can see the helper's body language express that, he was most certainly stunned. A lot of people love to talk, but, pain makes shit real.
GK1

by GK1 on 22 October 2019 - 16:10

Duco 2 looks physically equipped for multiple rounds of ground and pound - vs “adult man” or wild beast for that matter. Anyone know if Duco 2 threw any blue pups?
BlackMalinois

by BlackMalinois on 23 October 2019 - 04:10

http://younghaus.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/img_5771ebb38714d.png

@ Valk dogs like this destroy most of GSD  in everything  real men stoppers

 dogs who  you can beat   a couple of times with a baseball bat and don,t give up.

Most people on this forum don,t realise about this dogs because they have never seen or worked with them

@ GK1

Never seen blue pups from Duco he died 20 years ago and Duco himself was yellow/brown He was a producer from very big muscalar extreme  hard dogs some around 50 kg . I found this one BRN 21361 blue malinois Spike this dog have many black malinois in his fatherline what goes back to the Groenendaeler Andor van IJsselvloed dog what have the most influence when we talk about the  black malinois.

About  blue Spike

 

https://mechelspike.weebly.com/

What did he produced with different females?

Some grey blue/ blond blue

Many black some brindle dutchies, many yellow

https://mechelspike.weebly.com/dushi.html

https://mechelspike.weebly.com/blue.html

https://mechelspike.weebly.com/skally.html

by ValK on 23 October 2019 - 11:10

apple, do you really believe that mass of 30+kg is absolutely sufficient to pull down to the ground mass of 90+kg.

BlackMalinois
thanks for the link to pic of that dog with human, albeit shot with dog in front and man in back do not provide perspective for objective comparison.
is there any pic of that dog beside human?

by apple on 23 October 2019 - 11:10

Valk,
Where did you get the weight of 30 kg/66 pounds? I told you Duco II weighed 88 pounds. And there are smaller dogs that can take a man to the ground. If you noticed the video of Evil, there was no pulling. He simply knocked the decoy on his ass and it looked like the decoy was almost knocked out. Regarding your comments to BM about the picture, if you are referring to the photo of Duco II, again, I told your he was 88 pounds and 25.2".

by ValK on 23 October 2019 - 12:10

google calculator says 88lbs = 39kg
perhaps you're right, saying i'm not well informed but look.
i can use and pass around the info from other people only if know them and have no reason to doubt their credibility.
mainly i come to conclusion from my own experience and events, i witnessed myself.
i haven't seen video you mentioned but believe me, the fight against dog is not what you see on sport field.

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