my dog failing at equipment test, yep posting a fail. - Page 4

Thank you for your kind replies, Gee, it´s always refreshing to have a nice conservation with well educated gentlemen.

Crumbs, do you think the clip was set up to test suspicion and defense?

The problem is vk I don't think that you know what's going on . The decoy walks out with sleeve right in the view of dog .he is wearing bite suit pants there is no avoidance because the equipment is on the man and is more valuable than a sleeve on the ground so I ask again what drive is he in .u pick apart every video showing on this site v with very little knowledge some are very good videos.

"the equipment is on the man and is more valuable than a sleeve on the ground" 

 

YES, YES, YES. BRAVO YOU GET IT...FINALLY.

 

that is it, perfect analysis.

Not civil test, not anything but that. I thought that was kind of obvious, hope more catch on.

Drives; the dog was in prey drive as I sincerely hope he would. If the dog was defensive over that I would do agility cos the dog would be to weak for bite work.

I think the difference is some seem to want to see a dog go into defence over nothing at all.


My preference is theoretically a dog is impossible to put in defense.

I just find defensive dogs as almost always weaker and not good for much.

Two dogs with same amount of pressure, one goes into defense one stays in prey , I'm taking the prey dog.

We will never fight over a puppy, both of us will choose different dogs and both walk away happy, ain't that great.

You take what you like, I will feed what I like.

All honesty I believe the dog quick to defense is the weaker dog in the end.

Neither prey or defense or even equipment has anything to do with civil. I ain't changing until I get compelling evidence to do so...haven't seen it yet.

Vk I realize what the video was about, but I was just saying what I saw, and tried to explain whats going on with the training of my dog as an example.

So you want the dog to see the man as the prey item?
While the sleeve is just something to protect the decoy, which I agree with.

The dogs going to get pushed at some point into defence/fight, even a malinois has to have a level defence/fight drive, its a basic survival instinct. By putting it in defense sometimes, your going to build the dogs confidence and belief that it can win the fight, most dogs would probably rather avoid a fight.

why do you think military train so hard and put soldiers under stress? its for real combat situations, the training kicks in and hopefully suppresses that fear and brings a level of confidence in abilities, yet people still break down in the real world. Through training and sports your preparing that dog and testing its abilities, its genetics, trying to expose its strengths and weaknesses.

I want my dog pushed into defence, because in a real world situation, I'd be belting the living shit out of a dog that was hanging off my arm. I'm not saying to do that in training but you do want to see how well it copes with stress.

At the end of the day it boils down to our view of training and sports. I view it as a testing method for dogs, I want to know what it can and can't do, others may view at as a competition for points or their abilities as trainers.

Very well said crumbs

Thanks Yogi :) Which part lol

Apparently my thoughts have been on the right track and had my eyes opened to what I thought were failings in some sports, which helped me understand a lot more

I don't say much about dogs in real life or on forums, just listen and observe and keep my thoughts to myself.
Now i'll go back to learning lol

Agree with yr post crumbs, just was not the focus of that session.

From what I understand about military even the best soldiers have a finite effective combat lifetime due to stress, measured in hours. Same reason a lot of mma rules are changing ie in order for the top guys to have a career longer than a few fights, in fact about any fighter is never as good again once they get pushed into survival mode...it never makes them better at fighting.

I say this cos so many wanna be tough guys that want their dog pushed into defense every other session are undermining their dog. If those same guys ever experienced real violence repeatedly themselves instead of fantasizing about it they would get past this defense or nothing BS approach to dog training.

Sure defense can add some spice. too much too often however and you drop your guts.

VK4 said - "Neither prey or defense or even equipment has anything to do with civil."

Lol - you only learned that last week, from various posts on the subject - including mine.

Crumbs - you are barking up the right tree, there are some very good vids on this forum which will illustrate your goals - seeing is believing.

Yogidog said - "The problem is vk I don't think that you know what's going on" .

Very few will argue with that.

Regards
Gee

Don't tell me what you think I learned, I'm the one that made the point. Just keep learning and keeping your manners, your doing better, keep it up son.