GSDCA TT/TC - Page 2

@Hundmutter-

Is Ringcraft a pre-show training thing?

My dog "knows" the whole world is a giant toy for her to play with, so she's always investigating and figuring out how to play with whatever. If something reminds her of a towel, especially a moving one, it's obviously there for her to play with since towels used for early introduction to stuff LOL Baths might be her favorite activity, too LOL

So the gun shot would be like being in the parking lot of the range and hearing a single shot?

I was envisioning the "shooter" being 10 or 20 feet away (or maybe closer depending on the caliber blank used) and knowing my dog would "use initiative" (awesome dog - many thanks to my breeder)











 

Cat - Gun Test: yeah, during a UK Survey a large field (or possibly big cark park LOL) is normally chosen; handlers bring in their dogs and stand spaced around a horseshoe sort of semicircle, person with gun walks out into middle of gap between the ends, so is more or less equidistant from the dogs, depending on numbers, and not right next to any of them. Witnessed a few, never seen it done any other way, though there may be differences. Usually one shot.

Rules made by national Breed Council and all Assessors are part of a chosen Panel, so they generally 'sing from the same hymnbook' in their methods. Assessor isn't the shooter; is there to watch dogs' reactions as part of marking up Survey Report.

Ringcraft is a function of many local dog clubs, and yes its pre-Showring training (and ongoing support). In our GSD community its generally a bit more than that, a function of Breed Clubs, (which may or may not have own Shows under KC rules) or Regional Groups (which run their own IGP and Shows), with other stuff - IGP and/or Ob, and sometimes Agility training, social functions, information exchange, puppy outings, and often more - (best one I ever used to attend was run by a commercial breeding / boarding kennel, seriously GSD committed, had all above plus massive pet store attached, on their own site rather than one hired from eg Local Authority or Church, etc, as many clubs are.)

@Rik I am definitely not sticking with GSDCA, I only attended for the TC because I wanted to pursue CHIC. I saw some nice dogs too, but the amount that didn't pass TC was really concerning for sure. I just don't get the point of allowing dogs that do not pass to earn CHIC, why breed a GSD that cannot perform under pressure? Best to get a maltese if you ask me.

The gun was I believe a revolver (?) shot about a yard behind us. I assume blanks were used but I didn't really care too much to ask about the gun specs lol.

Either way glad we got it over with and will also be doing ATTS as well in the future just because it's offered near me yearly and i'd like to see how he does with their version of the protection scenario. My dog wasn't buying the GSDCA "decoy". (A woman with a hat and shovel that was groaning and not approaching us at all..) and just kind of gave her a funny look and stepped forward to investigate, which I though was appropriate for the scenario they presented us with.


@kimmelot I understand it only represents one day, and my dog has had his days where he's spooked at weird stuff and gotten through it but the test should not be lenient for that, because it is a test. They can take it again if the dog is having a bad day. I'm sorry if this is controversial but If a dog spooks enough to blow anal glands that is really bad IMO, it's a shame to hear that is common in the show ring. Blowing anal glands is an evolutionary response of a dog that is in extreme fear. Even worse is only taking dogs to a conformation ring and home. Again I ask, why even own a German shepherd? A mastiff could guard the property and probably be much happier doing only that.

Can I just protest that it may be 'common' at US / AKC Shows, but I sure as hell would have smelt it occasionally if it kept happening in UK Showrings !

Can't recall even one incidence of blown anal glands, even having seen some really windy dogs at times, from the ringsides @ English Shows - nor at any Ringcraft session I have attended down the years, where you would think younger and perhaps more nervous dogs (often 'all breeds') would put in an appearance under Judging conditions.
I do hope Kimmelot was joking. If not, it gives me another reason to worry about American Show GSDs [as if I didn't dislike the type enough already !]

Entirely with you Nicole on just pulling a dog out of the kennel, to Show then take home again, and having it do nothing but that. Crap life for any breed but especially the Shepherd with all that it was created for !! Unfortunately there are still too many Exhibitors on both sides of the Pond who seem to do just that.

Nicole, to some degree it does not matter which organization is conducting the temperament test. What matters is the quality/experience of the tester and how political or apolitical they are. Unfortunately have seen quite a few fail on one or both counts. Seen testers who obviously had no clue on how to read dogs and yes as you saw political setups also.  But there are some good evaluators out there and helpers too. Years ago the first male I had owned flew thru the test with flying colors up to the weird stranger who wasn't terribly weird or threatening and had an imaginary line he would not cross which was fairly far away. Mike went to the end of the leash when he came out of the woods but just stood there watching since he was far away & not a present concern. The helper realized this crossed his line & came closer to make the threat real and the dog then did say - ah NO! However the evaluator was not as savvy and did not realize he was looking at a stable serious confident dog and barely "passed" him on that portion in contrast to a nut case fearful bitch who went off like a firecracker at first sight of the man - barking because she was frightened to death. You could hear it in her voice & tell it from her body posture yet the evaluator gave her full points for her reaction. I had only entered the test as a courtesy to the club who needed the entries to break even and I already knew the kind of dog I had so at the end of the day you chalk it up to time spent doing a favor and make notes in your little black book about the evaluator and helper for future reference.

Several years earlier I had showed his mom at a winter indoor all breed show held in an old National Guard armory. They all echo horribly but in New England in winter that's where you did dog shows & obedience classes. This time we were in the basement which had a very low ceiling. Gsds for some reason are almost always first thing in the morning so I get there right b4 the show is to start. Just barely had gotten into the basement when the doors right next to us are thrown open and the band strikes up - yes a marching band including bagpipes- and walks right by us in that crowded echoey space and my girl did not turn a hair, taking it in stride as if it were an everyday occurrence. (startled the heck out of me tho) Those dogs you saw would have flipped out to the point of being unrecoverable and how sad is that. Especially in bitches the GSDCA has some drop dead gorgeous dogs but temperament ( & health) have been issues since the 70s and there is no institutional fortitude to change unfortunately.

Tig - seriously, a marching band?? LOL! This wasn't deliberate, was it? :o

I can certainly see a nervous dog emptying its anal glands if THAT happened!

For the CKC test I did, the shooter was behind a schutzhund-type blind, only about 5 or 10 feet from the dog.

During IPO/IPG tests, the gunshots are done during the obedience portion. The gun (starter pistol) is fired from the sidelines of the field. The dog is expected to continue with its routine as if nothing has happened.

Sunsilver, yup real band - it's the governor's honor guard. Goes back to the 1700s so they were wearing " funny" clothes as well. There for the opening ceremonies , National Athem etc. Not even sure they do the National Anthem at shows any more. Since it was an all breed show , I don't think it was deliberate lol but I betcha we lost a few competitors that day. I laughed way back then thinking about it. https://portal.ct.gov/MIL/Organization/Governors-Guards/Drill-and-Ceremony

But sometimes Nature does also lend a hand. At one of the USCA sieger shows 1990s? Washington DC area. Outside show. Huge Horrendus weather front with thunder, lightening and rain. They had a grooming tent set up and when the downpour got a bit fierce we'd crowd the edges looking for cover. In the middle of the tent there is this circle of men literally surrounding & sheltering a dog that was shaking like a leaf- Jello Weinerau. Absolutely gorgeous, incredible structure BUT per usual there was a reason Germany let him go. Thin nerves do not come close to describing the temperment/ character issue. Memory fails me if it was this show or the one the following year where USCA had changed the rules for the Sieger show so that if a dog only scored sufficient on the courage test it could not be placed in the VA group and had to be placed at least one group back. The judge from Germany was livid because he wished to place Jello VA. Again memory fails which year was which. I think this was his first USCA Sieger and he ran from the courage test and it was his second year where he scored sufficient. Whichever there was much discussion at both shows on the risk of trying to grab some of that great beauty because of what else came with the package. Much like the K litter Waldesruh in the early Lance years.

Btw SS you do know the rules have changed about the gun test in schutzhund. It has been eliminated in the BH & possibly in the one. As the SV rapidly caves to the green party/ animal rights folk they are eliminating more and more of the elements that contribute to soundness, stability and courage.

 

Tig, no, I didn't know that! I've been out of the sport for 2 years now due to my poor health.

:(
I'm thinking some nasty swear words right now!!

Funny thing - though Ranger passed the gunshot test in the TT, in later years, he didn't like fireworks. I remember being outside weeding on Canada Day, at dusk, as people were begining to let off fireworks. He didn't shake or run, but he lay down between my spread legs, wanting to be as close to me as possible. I found it rather touching that I was his security blanket.

Later, when we moved to my current town, he'd hide in the bathroom when they were doing artillery practise at the nearby military base. Same thing for fireworks. I have to wonder why things changed as he got older.

Some older dogs get an inner ear disturbance that appears to mimic sound shyness but usually it is specific to certain situations not generalized and can be treated with drugs like amitriptyline. Knew a golden retriever guide dog this happened to. Working bred vs school bred and you could not ask for a sounder dog or better worker. But in late middle age he started to show aversion to situations that had never bothered him b4. Because of his Great work ethic he would still guide but owner became worried that at some point he would get distracted. His showed up mostly in larger venues (echoes?) with large crowds or at places like the theatre. I suspect it may be what happens to hard of hearing folks with hearing aids. Those situations are very tough for them because of the overwhelming background noise. Their brain literally is unable to parse where the individual sounds are coming from. If so think of that in terms of a dog"s very sensitive hearing and an inability to isolate sounds. The dog above did quite well with drug therapy.

That's very interesting, Tig! I wonder if that's what was happening with him. He did have two bouts of vestibular disease in his old age. He recovered quite quickly from both, but often with this, recovery isn't 100% and the dog is still left with a slight head tilt.