by Hundmutter on 15 January 2020 - 13:01
In fact what you should have deduced as the "absolute number one goal of all animals" isn't procreation at all; its getting sufficient food to stay alive. Just because they live with someone who feeds them regularly does not alter that. Have you never heard anyone describe dogs to you in terms of "They have 3 paws for food, and one paw for everything else" ? And as long as a dog is kept occupied, rather than neglected by just letting it sit around doing nothing since it doesn't have to hunt, it isn't going to spend any time at all worrying about not having sex / reproducing itself.
What Apple, Astrovan and Koots have posted is all true; there are more than enough GSDs being produced in this world, so going into breeding on the grounds that your dog may feel somehow unfulfilled is not a sensible course of action. Far too many end up in shelters.
I would disagree with what you posted about your dog "making nice pups" because he is pretty; you have no guarantee of that. ALL puppies are, of course, cute, because they are pups; but how 'pretty', or otherwise healthy and functional specimens they turn out to be is dependent 50% on their mother and her genes too, not just on what a good looking dog their father is. There is so much more than registration paperwork to mating two dogs.
by Rocky KO on 16 January 2020 - 02:01
The last 4 replies need to calm down. Get off your high horse. Stop taking everything in such a literal sense. Zero valid reasons lol? Whats a valid reason for stud service? Are you naive enough to think that its not mostly about the money for most people offering stud service? Well it isn't for me. Working dog? Its a west german show line dog. And most people buy them as pets and companions. Of course they have high energy drives that should be met, and my dogs is, but they arent solely bred to be better workers.
There are different demands for pure bred pedigree dogs versus shelter dogs.
Yes, actually the number one purpose of animals IS to procreate. The reason they look for food to survive is TO procreate. Otherwise, stay alive for what? To go to the movies and hang out at the bars? That goes across the board for every single living thing. Procreation. Do some reading please before you try and lecture me.
What on earth are you talking about Hund??? Literally nothing any one of you said made sense. A breeder who is in need of stud service for their female WILL get it. Whether its my dog that does it or a different dog. The only thing that should matter is that the dog is clear of health issues and that the breeder is responsible and has buyers. If the dog is good looking and fits the standard for AKC regulations of a GSD, thats a huge plus.
Yeah 50% mother 50% father. I already stated that I would only mate him to a female with the paperwork and free of health issues.
I never asked for advice on breeding, nor am i interested in your very misguided opinions of me and my intentions. Jumping the gun and throwing around accusations and assumptions. I'll get all the neccessary information on the matter and self educate myself if i do decide to go through with it. Last thing I'll do is consider the advice of smug people like those of you whom im replying to. Thank you.
by Hundmutter on 16 January 2020 - 04:01
Ah but you sound as though you are unaware of - or have not considered that - among the huge number of people 'out there' who DO breed just for the money, there are many people who will cheerfully take first timers for a ride. They outnumber the sort of good breeder who breeds a very occasional litter just to keep their lines going. Many do not care about health and temperament issues. Just because many more people who breed primarily for profit exist does not make theirs the best course of action, nor one to be encouraged by lovers of the breed (or dogs generally). Nothing in your OP suggested you are like that; but nothing in it or your subsequent post gave us a clue either that you had really thought through the issues, and would therefore NOT be like that, either. These are typical PDB members' responses to such enquiries, because we care about the purpose and quality of the breed rather than the money that can be made out of it, and we see so many enquiries about whether to breed or not, (though usually presented in a slightly less 'anthropomorphic' way), and know it's a public site so there are a lot of people reading these threds who DO need these issues brought to their attention; the replies are going out not JUST to you ! The fact that you might be a bit more clued up did not come across ... AND we also would not wish YOU to fall foul of a bitch owner who might lie to you. It happens.
We are, after all, the 'more experienced people' you said in your first sentence you sought guidance from.
Pardon me for arguing with you, but you only mentioned 'healthy' in relation to the bitch (just saying that one word isn't really any recommendation that you know what those health issues entail, even with your own dog). You say you did not ASK for breeding advice; no, you asked for MATING advice - but where would you find a way to take that route without its probable consequence, had we said "Go ahead, your dog needs to 'lose his virginity' or he'll be behaviourally / emotionally damaged." ??? Owners of studs do share responsibility for what happens to their offspring. Ethicaly, if not always in practical ways.
I think the prevalence of "living to breed" over "living to eat (in order, perhaps, to breed)" is a bit of semantics really, depending on which scientists you read. All I can say is to point out that if you are not alive (ie have died of starvation) you are not available to breed / procreate / reproduce your genes.
I do know there are a lot of owners out there shelling out for e.g. replacement fencing once their dog has become a Houdini and is forever escaping to chase bitches in heat, who bitterly regret allowing the dog to mate/breed.
by apple on 16 January 2020 - 06:01
I think the fact that you asked the original questions shows you are not ready to breed GSDs and your other comments indicates you are not a steward of the breed.
by Hired Dog on 16 January 2020 - 06:01
In the last 20 years, that has been the focus of everyone who posts in forums, without any thought to a question being asked.
Now that we have that out of the way, tell me, why did you bother asking in here, if you already had all the answers, as you seem to think you do?
Were you "testing to see" if everyone else would agree with you? Were you curious, what was it?
Of course the number one reason dogs are alive is NOT to breed, most never get to, even the wild ones. Survival first, then we can talk about breeding, but, since you asked the "philosophical" question about breeding, the answer is, we want to survive and such, because we want to live, breeding can be done after all else is handled.
Next, for some of us, working dogs is what we are interested in and the ONLY reason to breed is to produce more dogs capable of working, not pets. My work dog can be my companion, but, my companion, if thats what it was bred to be, cannot, in most cases, be my working dog. The vast majority of dogs being pumped out today are pets who simply roll off the couch and eat and spend the rest of their days burping with boredom...some of us want more out of a dog.
Next, sure, anyone that wants to breed their animal today will find someone to assist them with doing it, for money mostly. Does that mean that every animal should be bred? Depends, what are you trying to produce...more pets or more dogs that will make an actual contribution to human kind?
Papers, what does that prove? Why are papers so important that people make such a huge deal over them? Breeding to another dog with papers means exactly dick. They tell you nothing about the dog's quality nor its ability to produce.
Finally, for you its not about money, you are doing it because you are the Albert Schweitzer of the dog world and you will donate every puppy produced to a good cause so that these dogs can be put to good use.
You are simply interested in allowing your dog to "have sex" because it will be happier that way, got it, because you KNOW for a fact that is so.
Yes, there can indeed be some smugness in here from time to time, but, after you spent a little while in these forums, you can tell who actually KNOWS and who is just parroting to hear themselves talk.
I tend to listen to working dog folks because even after 40 years of working work dogs, I still dont know it all and I can always pick up a gem or 3 along the way. Have a great day.
by Koots on 16 January 2020 - 20:01
There are different demands for pure bred pedigree dogs versus shelter dogs.
One of my dogs I adopted from a rescue agency and she was a daughter of Zidane v Haus Sevens.
To infer that only poorly-bred, BYB GSD end up in shelters or rescues is ignorant.
by Rocky KO on 17 January 2020 - 04:01
The way you guys generalize and repeating things I've already said is tiresome.
"One of my dogs I adopted from a rescue agency and she was a daughter of Zidane v Haus Sevens."
Did I say that absolutely 100% of all shelter dogs are poorly bred or byb? Nit picking at its damn finest. "MOST". You guys dont seem to understand this term. It means the majority. Perhaps 80/20. Do you understand? I doubt it at this point.
"I think the fact that you asked the original questions shows you are not ready to breed GSDs and your other comments indicates you are not a steward of the breed."
I dont need to be a steward of the breed. So long as the breeder is. I can provide the stud for the females if the breeder in question is interested in my dogs bloodlines and other things they take into consideration. Butt out, done with you.
Again, just because some people want a dog for work doesn't mean all do. As I said, and as you repeated, most people want a pet and companion. Most people who want a working dog that bad, dont go for show lines. They get a working line.
To spread your genetic code is the ultimate goal of all living things. This is NOT up for debate. Go read about it instead of speculating. Its the entire reason we are here today if you don't mind the scientific view. Constant passing down of genetic code leads to evolution. Why will a mother die to protect its offspring? Because the passing down of genetic code is more important than the mothers own life. Its literally hard wired that way. The so called "to live" is the purpose....think again. Its not. Yes, to eat and drink to live another day is because living longer gives higher chances of breeding. Will an animal pick breeding once and dying over living an extra day? No. Because the more it lives the more it can reproduce. At the end its all about the reproduction. And this is not a philosophical point of view. Its scientific.
Papers tell you the health condition of the dog and the potential for work or sport if the dogs are titled in the pedigree. If the entire 8 generations are free of HD for example, thats a good bet (please dont reply saying "there is more than just HD. I swear this is getting tiresome with you guys nitpicking every little thing i say. Its like we're in court and i have to specify every last detail.). If all the dogs are titled, thats a good sign also. It tells you as much as you can know with the exception of temperament.
Bottom line is I care for the breed immensely and I would never want to put out bad genetics or be responsible for any dogs to suffer whether it be lack of adoption or health problems.
by mrdarcy on 17 January 2020 - 06:01
Rocky KO, you came here and posted this thread asking for advise from more experienced people, your words not mine. When those more experienced people gave you correct honest advise that you did not like or agree with you became rude and defensive. I would be obliged if you would stop the rudeness to any other member here
Now we all love our dogs and think they are just great but my bet is you posted here knowing exactly what you were going to do with your dog. You thought because you thought your dog was beautiful that everyone else here would think that too and when they didn't agree with you breeding your dog you got offended. Now you have been given the best advice by some of the most knowledgeable people in the breed here, probably not the advise/answers you wanted hence the attitude. Now you either take it or leave it but no need for your touchy replies I think members have been very helpful to you, had you asked your question here several years ago the replies would not have been so polite!!
So if you wish to continue here as a member please mind your manners and quit the rudeness. If you have anything to say about my post please do so in a PM.
by Hundmutter on 18 January 2020 - 04:01
by Koots on 18 January 2020 - 13:01
I am wondering if we have been 'punk'd', lol.
Tone of OP reminds me of a certain member of past who seemed to relish posting controversy.