changing studs - Page 3

I would love to let everyone know who the breeder is, but I don't think I'm allowed to mention anyones name....I will try to email you privately...the breeder is in PA..is that ok to say..ha..and there were many unhappy customers in my same position.. Thanks for all the support, I will keep trying..my emails to the breeder remain unanswered.

Brandoggy could you tell me too? I am very close to PA so if I want another 1, could stumble across them (I only go in the region and insist on seeing the pups) when searching. I don't want to give them business - even the time of day - if they act as you say. I don't like deposits; maybe they've been around for a long time, but when I was searching American dogs way back that wasn't the norm. Now it is; as a buyer I despise that since the "waiting lists" are miles long and you could end up waiting 3 years for an unknown dog you don't really like or who otherwise has problems - and at a time that may no longer be convenient! And meanwhile you may see some nice pup and can't get her cuz you're tied into some other damn breeder who's making you wait behind 20 other people for dogs that don't exist. It's *not* fair, esp. to those of us really only interested in pets. I only went to a very few who didn't demand deposits. It should be 1st-come call, 1st served, after they're whelped, if you ask me.

Fokwulfe raised a very relevant point - namely the collection of deposits in respect of pups not as yet conceived or born. Is this really such a common practice? In effect, the Breeder is asking buyer to enter into a legally binding contract with item agreed upon a mere contingency! Hate to be this technical but I'd appreciate if any lawyer here can substantiate that such a contract is actually enforceable at law.

I do take deposits on unborn litters...It started out because people wanted a better pick out of the breeding and asked me if they could put down the deposit for the next breeding. It was very nice doing a breeding where you knew that half the litter was already sold, and that these were not just impulse buyers. I do make it very clear that they are picking a puppy out of the female....and unless I am breeding her to my personal male that the stud could change. I will actually have two males lined up just in case....I did have a time when I had a super nice breeding with a very well known VA male and when I was loading my car to let her know we were on our way, I was informed that he had eaten a puppy toy 4 days ago and was on meds and couldn't be bred..so here I was trying to find a very nice VA male that she could be bred to within a 24 hour time space. Thankfully I hadn't paid the stud fee yet so I wasn't out the money for the breeding...needless to say she didn't get bred. And yes I did have deposits on that litter. The thing about this is she only ovulates once a year so I couldn't just try again in 6 months....Now I did give the buyers an option to roll the deposit or I would refund the deposit. The people looking for a pet just rolled it over to a different litter, and the ones looking for show/breeding dogs are either waiting or got refunded. I did decide not to breed her to that male...because of the owner of the stud...I was very upset that she didn't call me and let me know as soon as it happend..I would have been able to get this female set up will a different male instead. So if this is the breeding practices of this breeder then I want no part. Shame nice dog. I did talk to my lawyer about taking deposits/contracts on unborn litters.....this is what he told me. That a contract is legal if both parties agree to it. But if one thing changes, like the stud...or the female dies ect. If that is not covered in the contract (ie...that if something happend that the deposit would be refunded or rolled to the next litter) then the contract is voided and the buyer should get his deposit back. It is just good business to try and make your buyer happy. Talk to them let them know why your are not doing the first breeding. Let them make decisions also. When this happend with the VA male I was on the phone that day calling the few people that had deposits on the litter. I gave them the number to the stud owner so they could verfy the story and feel better about the situation. We then discussed options. those that didn't want a different stud or want a different puppy out of a different breeding got thier deposits back. It is a shame that some breeders feel that a puppy is a puppy and they should just take anyone that I have....We as the buyer, and I mean when the breeder is getting a new puppy, expect what we were told we would get...and get very angry when we don't get it...but if given the choice in the decision makeing processes then we are much happier and in turn will do business agian with that breeder....if we don't get to make informed decisions and are told you are jut S.O.L then we are pissed feel lied to and will never do business again with that breeder....so as a breeder I try to treat my clients how I want to be treated. With respect and honesty. Heather

When paying such high prices for a puppy you should get what you want...I could rolll my $$ into another litter (that is my only option she has given me), but I don't want to have any out of her other dogs..She sold the stud dog, and the one she ended up using will be retired this summer..

then you should get your money back. from what I was told by the lawyer, that if it is in the contract what male and female you are contracting on is no longer being bred that the contract is voided...unless it states that you can roll the depsoit if what you wanted was not produced,...which you said this does. I would check into this because the two dogs that you put $$ down on are no longer being bred, this is a different situation....but it is good business to refund in this situation. Hope it all works out for you. Heather

Het, Thanks for explaining it so well. Brandoggy, I feel the crux of your situation devolves on what you actually have in writing. Fine for all to say how you're entitled to refund, but unless you own paper specifying the names of sire and dam, you could be looking at an uphill battle!

It has been an uphill battle, I was mulling it over whether or not to give the kennels name...but low and behold, the website no longer exists....HMMMMMMMM Guess I'm "sol".. Contracts, people, contracts!! thanks for all of your support..

yep, she's back!!!!

And MORE $$$ for a deposit!!