Sport to LE? Who's done this? - Page 31

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by Prager on 12 November 2018 - 23:11

Well if you compare a top sport to do BYB then I agree with you all the way. But I think the point is different, and that point is that sports organizations do not promote dogs like this and thus these dogs get recognition despite the sport organizations and not because of them. The sport is about points and dog like this do not get points. Thus people who are in it for points and competition sakes are not interested in them because they want points and winnings.

That is why breeders for sport try NOT to produce dogs like this. And everybody knows that if you do not breed for some qualities, then you will get less and less of it. And if sport breeders do get red herring dog like that, then the dog is eliminated from breeding effort and goes to LE programs or behind the fence of some house or industrial yard or security company or Military where Police do not breed dogs thus those dogs are eliminated out of the genetic pool. Yes, that pains me the most. The best police type dogs are not bred by police or military or are allowed to be bred ( generally).

Top females accepted to LE programs are spayed and as far as I know, all military dogs are spayed or neutered. ( At least that is what I have seen in Air Force dogs and heard from Army Explosive detection dog handler.

On top of it only very few sport enthusiasts want to compete with dogs like this thus there is another elimination whammy to the gentic pool. And yes if now and then rare dog falls through the grate of competition breeding and compete and is recognized by people who look for true work then yes such dog gets chance to pass on his genetics.

  But that is despite of the sport and not because of it. 



by Prager on 13 November 2018 - 00:11

Susie yes it is Bourbon vom Nebeltal. I can not find anything on his hips rating also no such info on his parents. There are also a lot of old style Czech dogs which of course interests me I just wish to know more about the hips in last generations.

by ValK on 13 November 2018 - 02:11

What i like is a variety of breeds doing personal protection

interesting to observe difference in  pursuance of same work by different breeds.

Only on trials people are able to see and compare dogs-and a "fail" because of lack of obedience is the best Marketing a dog can get...

susie, hypothetically it might be true - exposure of dog to wider audience through sport event. but you dismissing crucial point. people, who attends such events, doing this because they are fanatically dedicated to sport and has no interests in dogs, who failed, regardless of reason.
unfortunately video isn't accessible to see what happened but link to dog's page provided by Prager, shows only lone dog as offspring of that dog.


by Prager on 13 November 2018 - 02:11

ValK I am sorry my friend. I tried to find the video on youtube . In order to see this video, you need to have a FaceBook account. ...I think. Does anybody has a video of this dog on YouTube?


by susie on 13 November 2018 - 19:11

Bourbon: GSD online states normal/normal.
The PDB registration is wrong in case of birth date and reg no...

Prager and Valk, I know you don't believe me, but a lot of people like those dogs, and are willing to breed to them.

They may be more difficult to train, but when trained well they are outstanding, and as long as they are obedient most judges are willing to give the points they deserve, and the smart breeders will make use of them.
The breeders looking for results only-who cares? They have no clue, and the buyers are naive.

Once again: without "sport" nobody would even know this dog exists.

How do you want to promote a good dog?
By training on your own somewhere in the woods?
By taking some fancy videos?

by emoryg on 13 November 2018 - 20:11

I was able to watch the video. The guy narrating kept say the dog should be a cop dog. I would enjoy hearing the feedback from anyone who watched the video as to why this dog would be a good cop dog.

by BlackMalinois on 13 November 2018 - 20:11


The more difficult dogs cost more time to train today LE and Military went dogs until 3 years old mostly
many good dogs here in KNPV Holland with more diffcult hard charactar ,some dogs are 4 years or older when they have a PH-1 certivication and for most police departmenst they are too old.Thats why we see here today more and more an other typ of dog who is more easy to train they are finished certivication between 2 or 3 years old.

Only some hardcore trainers have this old school typ  dogs yet and most of them they don,t wanna or can,t sell his dogs ,


Its not only the trainers/handlers  but its also for most part the market

this have a lot  influence on the breeding !!!




by Hundmutter on 13 November 2018 - 22:11

But it has always been true that SOME Police Officers want to recruit the dogs easier and quickest to train (saves money); have often seen Police trying out green adult dogs being 'gifted' to them who were reluctant to take dogs who, with just a little extra effort & patience, would almost certainly have made good dogs for the Force. Fortunately I've known of just as many who would put some more thoought into it and take that sort of dog. Trials & tribulations of having 30-odd Dog Sections all independently selecting. Plus the pressures of financial cuts.

by ValK on 14 November 2018 - 02:11

susie, sometimes we see things differently but i don't think i ever gave you reason to think that i don't believe you.
maybe there are breeders, who might like dog despite his failure but i never seen the breeder, who would promote his/her litter as

"offspring of sire, who was disqualified during competition at (put here a name of event)"


The more difficult dogs cost more time to train today LE and Military went dogs until 3 years old mostly

not sure what do you mean under "difficult dogs" but i assume it's a dogs with pronounced domination, selfsuficiency, strong independence, sharpness and toughness of personality.
if that so, then i cannot agree with your statement. true that such dog are not easy to submit  to handler will. particularly if interaction started not within puppy age and dog already have reached certain state of maturity. but it doesn't mean such dog are hard to train. 
contrary, this type usually more smarter/intelligent, than that handler's submissive dog, who always looking for direction/guidance from handler.
the dogs at border, at age 18 month were deployed for patrol duty.


by Prager on 14 November 2018 - 04:11

@emoryg: it is not the training of the dog per se, that is still sport, but it is the attitude of the dog. He is tough and thinking dog. I love a dog like that. Today sport is mostly reliant on the drive - prey drive that is. there is more to working dog then drive. It is dog's attitude and "presence" and thinking. The dog knows it is Bul sh1t routine to do search the blinds routine. He does not play the game even though he knows the game. He is actually looking for the man even places which are not blinds. I see a working dog actually working and not just going through the motions ofroutine. I do not know if it is just genetics or genetics and training and I do not care. 



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