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by Gustav on 16 July 2012 - 00:07
Brynjulf.....very good post above about nerves.
by Ramage on 18 July 2012 - 04:07
I also noticed a lot of people use "hard" and "handler aggressive" interchangeably. I understand that some hard dogs might be handler aggressive, but hard does not mean handler aggressive. Seems to me a lot of people don't get this.
I can handle and work a hard dog. It's the handler aggression I don't like and won't own. That is not fun or enjoyable to work with. Been there, done that, not happening again. I have met and owned hard dogs that are NOT handler aggressive. However, it's to the point now when someone says "hard" I almost always assume they mean handler aggressive, and this is their play on words to get around the truth, because this is 99% of the time what they're doing.
So, my question is what does the trainer really mean? Does he mean a truly "hard" dog or, as I suspect, a handler aggressive dog? I'll bet he really means handler aggressive and he's yet another one of those people that uses hard and handler aggressive inappropriately. If he is referring to handler aggression and said this to me, I'd have to say he's an idiot. A person's ability to deal with handler aggression is not based on sex. There are men who can't handle the aggression and women who don't think twice about it. It's a personality trait of the person, not their sex, that determines if they can or cannot handle it.
I can handle and work a hard dog. It's the handler aggression I don't like and won't own. That is not fun or enjoyable to work with. Been there, done that, not happening again. I have met and owned hard dogs that are NOT handler aggressive. However, it's to the point now when someone says "hard" I almost always assume they mean handler aggressive, and this is their play on words to get around the truth, because this is 99% of the time what they're doing.
So, my question is what does the trainer really mean? Does he mean a truly "hard" dog or, as I suspect, a handler aggressive dog? I'll bet he really means handler aggressive and he's yet another one of those people that uses hard and handler aggressive inappropriately. If he is referring to handler aggression and said this to me, I'd have to say he's an idiot. A person's ability to deal with handler aggression is not based on sex. There are men who can't handle the aggression and women who don't think twice about it. It's a personality trait of the person, not their sex, that determines if they can or cannot handle it.
by darylehret on 19 July 2012 - 14:07
by Hundmutter on 19 July 2012 - 15:07
My gut tells me to agree 100% with Yogie on this one. AND she seems awfully young, still (alright I know some Malis aren't very big dogs) A] for it really to have been established that she is 'hard' and B] to be handing out that kind of yanking treatment, irrespective of whether the pushing the head is good bite training technique. Would have been more use if there had been a Before and After video, showing what she was like when training first started ?
BTW what was the very young puppy there for / learning from this training ? It looked quite scared.
BTW what was the very young puppy there for / learning from this training ? It looked quite scared.
by joanro on 19 July 2012 - 15:07
Hundmutter, the pup gets to see what's in store for him!
by Hundmutter on 19 July 2012 - 15:07
Yes Joanro thats what i was afraid of !
by Elektra21 on 20 July 2012 - 11:07
I have had both hard dogs that were not handler aggressive with me, and some that were, and frankly I don't mind either one. Once you can understand the dog and gain their respect, they will work for you.
When one of my males came into the US the first time, he went to an officer in OH. Even though he got both of his police dog certificates (he already had KNPV PH I, Met Lof, IPO III, and others) and worked the streets well, things between handler and dog were not going well, and he was fairly handler aggressive. He was shipped back to the Netherlands. About 6 months later I brought him back to the US with his trainer to do a K9 training seminar in OH. Everyone knew the dog had been sold, but not to who. You could have heard a pin drop in that room of 30 cops when his trainer told them he was going to me, a 120lb female. Everyone said what a waste and that it was a bad decision on the trainer's part. Well, that wonderful K9 and I went on to work together for many years and he never so much as growled at me. He was truly a very hard dog, and there were few people that could handle him, most of the K9 officers were afraid of him. He just kind of reeked of attitude.
His cousin (KNPV PH II) was brought in for an officer in GA, that didn't go so well either. The K9 officer of many years was petrified of the dog. He was not in any way unstable, but he was very pushy and very vocal about it as well. So I went and picked him up and took him home. He was wonderful for many years until his back gave out from a previous injury.
I once had a couple come look at a set of pups, and my current K9 was just walking around the yard (prancing really) and the guy asked how I handle something like that with so much attitude. I told him with a lot of respect.
In the video it is impossible to really tell much of anything about that poor dog being jerked around. There is no way she could have any concept of what is being asked of her. And I am not so sure the person jerking on the end of the lead has any idea either except for exherting brute control. Frankly I find the video completely disgusting.
My K9's are my partners. I have a great deal of respect for what they are capable of, and with fair handling, they in turn have a great deal of respect for me. It is a parnership, not a dictatorship.
When one of my males came into the US the first time, he went to an officer in OH. Even though he got both of his police dog certificates (he already had KNPV PH I, Met Lof, IPO III, and others) and worked the streets well, things between handler and dog were not going well, and he was fairly handler aggressive. He was shipped back to the Netherlands. About 6 months later I brought him back to the US with his trainer to do a K9 training seminar in OH. Everyone knew the dog had been sold, but not to who. You could have heard a pin drop in that room of 30 cops when his trainer told them he was going to me, a 120lb female. Everyone said what a waste and that it was a bad decision on the trainer's part. Well, that wonderful K9 and I went on to work together for many years and he never so much as growled at me. He was truly a very hard dog, and there were few people that could handle him, most of the K9 officers were afraid of him. He just kind of reeked of attitude.
His cousin (KNPV PH II) was brought in for an officer in GA, that didn't go so well either. The K9 officer of many years was petrified of the dog. He was not in any way unstable, but he was very pushy and very vocal about it as well. So I went and picked him up and took him home. He was wonderful for many years until his back gave out from a previous injury.
I once had a couple come look at a set of pups, and my current K9 was just walking around the yard (prancing really) and the guy asked how I handle something like that with so much attitude. I told him with a lot of respect.
In the video it is impossible to really tell much of anything about that poor dog being jerked around. There is no way she could have any concept of what is being asked of her. And I am not so sure the person jerking on the end of the lead has any idea either except for exherting brute control. Frankly I find the video completely disgusting.
My K9's are my partners. I have a great deal of respect for what they are capable of, and with fair handling, they in turn have a great deal of respect for me. It is a parnership, not a dictatorship.
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