Why minimize vaccines - Page 2

LMH, Our veterinarian gives the one-year rabies vaccine to the puppies when they are four-months old. When it's time to re-vacinate the dogs get the three-year from then on out.

LMH, There is NO difference in the rabies vaccine used first year or third year in the United States. What is the issue is that the first vaccine stimulates the immune system to begin to produce antibodies. Like many vaccines, a single vaccine does not do this well enough. A second (or in the case of other vaccinations perhaps a third) does produce adequate antibodies in most dogs and confers longer-lasting immunity. However, we have learned that few vaccines produce life long immunity, even in humans. As for the incident with your friends dog, I am glad he is improved. Could he have had a tick bite? Could he have a virus or bacterial infection? Who knows. Keep me posted. The fact that he is apparently improved is great, but this is an example of how one could incorrectly attribute an adverse effect to a vaccination. It will be interesting to follow this case. Was any blood work done? Take care, Hodie

Thank you animules. Does anyone know the strength of that 3yr-rabies shot. If it is the same as the 1 yr, then I will go for it reluctantly to get proof of my dog's vaccination. If it is stronger and potentially more dangerous to my dog (I worry about his immune system), then I will opt for the 1 yr variety and have to take my chances skirting the law. Sharyn--We have beautiful weather here today. Can only imagine how it is out by you. As to Luca's story being anecdotal---wouldn't go so far as to say that. I'll have to inquire about bloodwork. Luigi never mentioned it, so probably not. Ticks--highly unlikely, but anything is possible. The attitude of the dog's attending vet was that--yes, Luca had a rare reaction to the vaccines. But, then again, anything is possible. The decision was not to overload his system with everything at once again. Then it was suggested to Luigi that in the near future, they had a vaccine to cover another problem. Luigi couldn't remember the name, but said it dealt with "urine in the streams". He was shaking his head and hand in the air when telling me. Not mad, half laughing---but, he had enough. If anything changes, I'll let you know. Sharyn, as I said before, I am with you on vaccinating. But, I will have a bigger input from now on---and, make use of titers. As always, I know you have only the best interests at heart for the dogs, as do I. Bye for now, L.

I have seen first hand vaccination reaction. It was with my DeeDee, took her in for her 3rd and last round of puppy shots. No elevated temp, healthy happy pup. On return home from the Vet she went to take a little puppy nap, nothing unusual. An hour later when she woke up, she was stumbling and couldn't walk straight, ears down and eyes just didn't look right. I grabbed the phone, called the Vet, within 5 mins we were on our way back to the Vet. Much to my dismay when we got there they were swamped, Receptionist said she would tell the Vet I was there. For 20 mins I kept jiggling my pup in my arms to try to keep her with me, I could feel in my arms that she was slipping closer to unconsciousness and death. Oh by the way noone would give up their seat, so I just kept pacing, bouncing and talking to my pup. Finallly the Vet tech comes and grabs my dog, I was pretty upset, but she told me that I couldn't go with her. 45 mins later they tell me that DeeDee is ok and the Vet will speak with me. Well not a word of the reaction to the Vaccine, she was give Bendaryl and Cortisone. A Neuro Exam showed no damage, I have never been surethat that is the truth. I was talked into the 1 year booster by the Vet, this time she had to stay at the Vet's office and was given Benadryl before the shot. Now all she gets is the 3 years Rabies according to law.

LMH, After thinking about what I wrote about the three year rabies being the same as the one year, I thought better of it. Of course, it depends on the specific vaccine your vet uses. My vet uses one that is the same. I am not sure, off the top of my head, which manufacturer produces it. But others may indeed have vaccines that are different in some way. Also, be aware that in some states and locales the governing body stipulates what vaccine must be given and how often. I hope that clarifies what I wrote. I did not mean at all to minimize Luca's story. Hopefully, all will turn out well. The "urine in the streams" comment is interesting....could he have been thinking about giardia which comes from fecal contamination? There are other diseases which come from urine, but dilution with stream water would make the likelihood of picking up a bacterial infection slim. Giardia is ubiquitous and often found in streams, especially here in the west where cattle and other animals roam. There is a vaccine for it, but it does not prevent, only reduces shedding of the nasty little bugger. On the subject of titers, do some reading if you have time. There is not a firm consensus on what level is protective, and make sure the lab you use knows what it is doing. Take care. Regards!

I believe in MINIMIZING vaccinations, but that does NOT mean do not vaccinate. I had a reminder of why we vaccinate when I took my pups to the vet to get their health check-ups. Fortunately, I took the first pup in, inside it's crate, and didn't set it down anywhere. I saw a pup vomiting and just looked awful, poor thing. The woman said it was just sick, and I told her (previous experience with a pup our family found abandoned next to a river, took home and found out was extremely ill) that it sounded, from her description, and looked like parvo to me. She disagreed, because "they still have their mother's antibodies at 8 weeks and couldn't possibly have parvo." When I was leaving, she was crying and offering a $100 cash reward to each staff member if they could keep the puppies alive. She had 9 pups all with Parvo. The only thing that was going through my head was that she could have spent $5 per puppy at 6-7 weeks and vaccinated them, and would likely NOT be in that situation. I'll bet she starts vaccinating earlier now too........ I guess you can talk talk talk about how pups don't need vaccinations, but clearly, once something like this happens to you, it would probably cause you to re-think the whole thing. Me personally? I try to learn from other people's mistakes!

It is clear that pups have antibodies from their mothers, assuming their mother has been vaccinated (or exposed and lived), but the problem is that we just do not know when that immunity actually wanes. In many pups it is possible that the birth immunity does last 8 weeks, perhaps even more (for example if the mother was re-vaccinated just before pregnancy), but for many others, that immunity may not be there or has already waned early for a variety or reasons. Pups who have immunity already may, in fact, have some altered response when given a vaccine. That is one reason why a series of vaccines is used with some of these diseases. Again, people can do what they like. For my dogs and pups when I have them, they will have vaccinations. Doing anything is a risk in this life. A careful review of the risk vs. benefit of the "core" vaccines should give a clear understanding of the way to proceed. I believe the risk versus benefit falls squarely on the side of benefit to provide protection for the pups.

Here is my story... I have always vaccinated my pups and dogs. Have never had any problems. Even use leptosorosis(that could be the one that is "urine in the stream" from rodents can cause kidney damage)which is more pron to cause reactions. but recently had a 1 year old German shepherd develope "digital cyst" an autoimmune issue. Then she developed skin eruptions. These are not "hot spots' They are oozy,sticky sores and different areas of her body. When we put it all together we realized the digital cyst came about when we had her hips xrayed and the skin problem when I gave her the yearly booster. But this is 1 dog out of 19 that had a problem. Could be genetic. But we really think since we could trace it back that she has a sensitive system. So for her she will not receive her boosters but will continue to get her rabies as per NY law. We do not use flea products. Sometimes those can cause reactions too.