Where did the US GSD go wrong? - Page 3

Charlie (my little fear-biter), you respond so strongly... but without a bite that is calm. Charlie, I never said I disagreed with your beliefs about the standard. You are quite wrong in believing I would breed anything outside the SV standard. Where we differ is in the handing of dogs that don't fit the standard. I don't think any additional legislation is required to handle the situation. People that choose a bad path will fail. Yes Sunshine, Preston had some good points (albeit on the other thread).

Tailless, Me a fear biter?..lol.I'm not your little anything.Your an ass...I said nothing about handling of defective dogs, I mentioned the old german way and that was through culling of said dogsYou asked why do I care....Try to be on the same page as the rest of the team before posting,as least pretend to know what your talking about. The name Tailless is most fitting for you I must add.

Charlie, I am with you. I don't have time now to go into such arguments with "AKC followers", but it's nice to see that there is someone out there standing up against this shit. Thanks.

The USA went wrong nowhere, and it has nothing to do with the standard. You want a good police GSD, go to someone who specializes in that. you want a good AKC Specialty GSD go to a reputable individual who specializes in that. You want a Seeing Eye GSD, go to Fidelco. You want good sheepdog, get a Border Collie. (chuckles, the devil made me say that). You want a Panda Shepherd, go get one from somebody who knows about them. Crooks, Cons as well as reputable breeders exist on both sides of the ocean. The AKC is a great record keeper, and event organizer. That is what I want them to do for me. I don't want them telling me who I can breed from or to, how often, etc. I have my personal standards for that. I also CHOOSE to follow the FCI standard. I am not a great pioneer like Captain Max. I don't ever think I'll make a new breed. And for those who want to blame Bloat and Torsion on the American showline GSD, I think you might like to know that the armed forces are now tacking the stomachs of all their working line GSD, Malanois etc, as a preventative measure. The procedure is cheaper for them than breeding or buying working dogs garanteed not to bloat and torsion. Best Wishes to ALL, Jo-Ann

Quote, The AKC is a great record keeper, and event organizer. That is what I want them to do for me. I don't want them telling me who I can breed from or to, how often, etc. Unquote Please don't take that personally, Jo Ann. But I think that is exactly the problem. If the AKC would start to issue some regulations, like hip certifications, some sort of breed suitably test, and so, we would have only half the problems. Anytime, breeding is not regulated, there are problems, the most prominent countries are the USA and Great Britain (I won't get into that, since I don't know enough, that would be for Solo to explain). The problem is that it is the American mentality to change everything to the extreme (size, sidegait and so on) without regard to the overall dog. Jo Ann, you and I know better than to buy these puppies that result out of that. But look at newcomers or just uninformed people who want to have a nice looking healthy and well tempered pet. When they buy these puppies, they are overwhelmed with health and temperament issues. After a while, they either give up and hand it over to the pound or chain /leave it in the backyard and forget about it. That is soooo sad! That is they I personally can't except your statement which I quoted. JMO! Respectfully, Chris Stump Zwinger vom Silbersee

Ferrum, Us being able to pick and choose our breed standard is the very reason why the military is choosing to sew the stomachs.....If your going to do it at least attempt to do it right.Attituds like yours are what is wrong with the dog todayGuess what, breed to the SV standard ane the shepherd can do any of the things you mentioned above.Maybe you should go into collies?

The AKC is not responsible for the breeding practices of any breed, that's up to the parent breed clubs. So if you want mandatory requirements, then you need to contact the GSDCA and petition them. AKC only goes by what the parent clubs tell them (AKC does not make the standards or enforce anything other than proper paper work), so if GSDCA put enough pressure, MAYBE something would happen (unlikely, but stranger things have happened).

Mike, would it not make sense to have ALL breed registries go by the orignal SV breed standard?And what about the AKC standard? Where did this come from?

I agree with some of your statements. Being essentially an AKC breeder since 1970, I've seen a lot of changes within this organization, some for the good, most for the bad. It is the American mentality that bigger is better leading to the more extreme the better which has put the GSD where it is today in the AKC showring. Some AKC breeders do recognize that a change is in order and to that end, they are looking at breeding less extreme GSD's. Most of these breeders are using imports to outcross with their Am lines; sometimes it clicks, sometime it doesn't, but can't we cay that about all breedings? AKC is not a policying agency. We Yanks are used to making our own decisions and aren't very likely to take to AKC telling us what we can or can't breed. Requiring titling, health clearances, etc is never going to happen either, too many puppy millers putting too much money into the AKC coffers. In some ways NOT titling or placing so much emphasis on seiger placings and so forth has been a good thing for some AKC breeders; it has taught them the importance of learning about genetics, structure, movement. As far as import breeders, placing so much importance in the decisions of the BW's and sieger placings has allowed them to be complacent relying on the decisions of others when planning a breeding. Many do not understand much at all about genetics or structure although they have bred multiple litters. Some of the questions posed on this board and other bear witness to that as being a fact. I don't believe in telling anyone what they should or should not breed, I keep my own council. There are warts on the noses of all breeders whether they are following the SV style or the AKC style of breeding and showing. Some on this board will turn a blind eye to the hideous toplines seen on so many of the imports while very eagerly condemning the inefficient over sloping backlines of the Am lines. Neither are correct. I don't even want to get into the size of some of the Va or top AKC champions, I doubt more than 20% are within the standard. These oversized dogs can't work as intended, I never see them at local Schutzhund trials, they are standard sized working lines. It's easy to justify what one has in the backyard, be it an AKC dog or a Germany working line or showline. If you don't like the look of the imports, buy an Am lines. If you don't like the look of an Am line, buy an import. Just be careful that some of the current trends like those roachy toplines don't harm you own dogs like the Am breeders did by overlooking too much angulation in their dogs. It cuts both ways people.

IF WE ALL KNEW AND THOUGHT LIKE CHARLIE IVORY, THE SHEPHERD WOULD STILL LOOK LIKE A SHEPHERD, NOT A CRIPPLE. THE AKC COULD CARE LESS ABOUT WHAT IS REGISTERED, WHEN THEY STOOP SO LOW FOR WHITES THEY WILL TAKE ANYBODYS MONEY, SO IS THE OFA ALL ABOUT MONEY. SHOW SHEPHERDS IN AMERICA AND BREEDERS THAT BREED ANY JUNK DOES NOT TRULY KNOW WHAT A SHEPHERD IS TO REPRESENT OR LOOK LIKE. I KNOW OF MANY BACK YARD BREEDERS THAT SELL THE DOGS AS WEST GERMAN ONES WHEN IN FACT THEY ARE NOT NOR EVEN LOOK PUREBRED? AND, ROACH BACKS ARE STRONG BACKS THEY ARE NOT TO BE SHOWN IN WITH AM. SHEPHERDS WITH STRAIGHT BACKS AND ANGULATION LIKE A DROP OFF CLIFF. LONG STIFLES TO STACK IS WRONG CONFIRMATION, BUT IT IS AM. BREEDERS THAT BREED TO WIN. SEIGER SHOW DOGS CANNOT COMPETE WITH THESE CRIPPLES, WELL MAYBE A FEW CULLS CAN TRY?? STAY WITHIN THE SV, MAX THAT FOUNDED THIS WONDERFUL BREED AND STOP CRIPPLING THEM. SHILOHS ARE IN RARE REGISTERYS IN THE U.S. I DO NOT THINK AKC PERMITS THEM?? WHO CARES ANYMORE. I DO CARE ABOUT THE BREED, WEST GERMAN DOGS CAN WORK, LOOK GREAT AND STAY WITHIN THE STANDARD OF WEIGHT, HEIGHT, GOOD BONE STRUCTURES, NICE PIGMENT, CORRECT ANGULATION, SOME ROACHING OF THE BACK FOR STRENGTH AND GOOD HEAD SETS WITH PROPER COLOR OF NOT REGISTERING WHITES, ETC.