Desperate for advice with working GSD pup - Page 2

Sounds terrible poor puppy. my guess it is a medical issue. better get on it quick.

good luck, please keep us informed.

Most vets think tail chasing is a form of OCD.The GSD seems to be prone to this behavior. There are a number of articles on the net about this. Most GP vets probably won't know the best way to treat your dog, so you will probably be referred to a behaviorist if a physical exam is not remarkable. 

Behavior specialist i had one that chased tail his so fast he would almost pass out .i took him to a specialist for two weeks and he fix his problem never did it again. but not a cheap fix, but wasnt a cheap dog!

The key is simply to  stop it. A swift no command at the right time. A leash correction, at the tight time. Avoiding triggers. Learn to read what those are. One must have that authority established with your dog, first.

The muzzle suggestion at this time, since you admit self mutilation is happening, then this interim remedy is not extreme, but seen as a tool,  and very useful.

Muzzle is a good start. Make sure that  you use correct muzzle where the dog can pant and will not overheat. Normal muzzle will close the dogs mouth and the dog then can not pant and may overheat!!! That is very dangerous for the dog especailly in  warm, humid  wether. Thus the  shape of muzzle you are looking for is such that the dog can open his mouth and pant and even drink. . At risk that  I stir negative reactions towards me trying to sell somethin g here  I will say that I sell muzzles of this type. I am doing as a service and not as a profit maknig venture. I sell like 2 -3 of these a year.  Let me know if you want one. 

 Prager Hans

The dog casing   is caused  usually by  one of the factors below and treatment depends on the cause. 

1/Improper environment. Small confinement, lack of natural stimulation, boredom,  .

2/You taught the dog to do it or he somehow learned by him self. That can be unlearned and deconditioned be removing the reinforcer. To teach the dog to chase his trail  is a rare case of stupidity of an owner. Thus it does not happen too often.  Into this point you may include also a point 4/ and 1/ 

3/over reaction to a stimulus ( loud noise , or sight of a dog and so on)  (Excitement) caused by OCD type of neurological disorder are the other 2.  This is genetically predisposed.  This may need to be treated by medictions. 

4/ Next  one is injury or physical irritation. 

5/th one is nutritional

 What you can try before you go to behavioral  vet

   Assume that the behavior is learned and then precede accordingly. Such learned behavior is describerd in points 1/,2/4/  No harm is done if you are wrong and behavior is neurological. To keep the dog excited and over active in order not to be bored is dangerous because he may become excitement dependent and start to chase the tail if the situation after excitement becomes  calm and he will start to lack the excitement. The important is to figure out  what is happening immediately before he starts the chase. That is as far as outside environment goes( like he sees a dog or other source of excitement ) if possible remove this source and then also you should lear to read the dog for imminent tail chasing sign.( like him to look intently on his tail)    Keep the environment calm but not boring. ( hard to do- I know) Using a muzzle  will or may stop it and i would definitely try to use muzzle especially in situation when you are not in a control of the dog.   But the muzzle will not stop the behavior  on it's own and will only INTERRUPT  the behavior. 

This is long term solution. If you figure out what is happening prior to chasing then you may use the muzzle only in those situations. Like if he does it during walk or just after the walk then put the muzzle on him only at those  short  times. It is important that the dog accepts the muzzle as a positive or neutral device. If the muzzle adds to a stress then the behavior may get worse. Put a treat into the muzzle and let him eat it. Put the muzzle on in short time  increments until the dog does not see the muzzle as a source of stress. This is important. Muzzle is best used if the behavior or cased by injury here it turned into learned compulsion  or it is learned in some other  way and it is  not  OCD or nutritional. In those cases (OCD or nutritional) the muzzle will or may  just interrupt the behavior. 

 Another thing is this. People correct the behavior when it happens. That is always wrong or not as good as  to correct the behavior BEFORE it happens.  That is important. You  need to correct the behavior as it enters dogs mind BEFORE IT STARTS (!!!) when the dog  starts the behavior  then you missed the boat of effective behavioral modification and any action then can and will make make it worse. Once the behavior starts you must not pay any positive or negative attention.  Like when you are in living room and og strts to spin do not laugh, talk or  say anything to the dog  and just walk away.

  How do you "correct" the dog before he starts? I call it a "Minority report" training After the Tome Cruz movie where people were executed when they were determined that they will commit murder in the future- before they committed such murder. There are tell tail ( pun not intended) signs that  the dog is going to start the chase of  his tail BEFORE  he starts.  Like he starts to look at his tail intently. Also what I mean by correction in this case is not physical correction on the leash  and choker, that can make it worse and sometimes dog tries to wedge the tail chase there before such correction when he sees such correction coming > Or  will  engage the tail chasing activity when you can not correct it because you are too far or not present at all.  Best is to defuse the stress causing it and thus avoid the compulsion to chase the tail. I would try to correct him by  refocusing  him on a toy or treat in the exact moment when the tell tail sign occurs.   In another words when you identify what behavior precede the chasing you can say something neutral and calming like hum  "Oooohhmmm" (LOL)  and give him treat which takes some time to eat like cheese. and then keep on going with present activity,..... like walking. 

 5/ Nutritional reasons. 

Another reason supposedly is lack of vitamin B12 in a  B complex. I would definitely find a natural source of it and best would be to feed raw or dried food which contains it.  Liver(!!!), yogurt( organic) cheese, eggs, fish are good sources of B12 which is what you are after in B complex since lack of  B12 may be the culprit. It is a fact that dogs on vitamin supplements containing B complex are less likely to chase a tai. Your vet may give him B12 shot and then see if that helped. If it did then that is your culprit. - but never give the dog for  prolonged periods any  part of B complex alone. Vitamins B need to work together and if you give then alone then that may cause a problem .  Some of the treats if made home without chemicals make excellent treats. Like dried liver.

Since we deal with nutrition another culprit may be mineral imbalance. You can remedy that by providing the dog with raw, unrefined sea salt like Celtic salt. It will not hurt  to give a dog a pinch of this on every meal. All these are long term solutions and I would try them all. So be patient and love your dog.

 Prager Hans. 

 

 BTW:

x  dogs who are separated from  mother and literates are more likely chase their tail. 

x lack of exercise did not cause tail chasing 

x tail chasing starts usually at 6 mo

​x it has genetic predisposition but if you are stupid enough you can teach your dog to chase tail. 

x dog chasing may be initially started by tail injury, flees or by shaving the tail.  

x some believe tat if all fails tail chasing can be stopped by e collar on lower stimulation level. 

 

Interesting articles. 
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/08/120820093614.htm

http://www.usask.ca/wcvm/herdmed/applied-ethology/behaviourproblems/tailchase.html

Prager, you're shameless. The op has a serious problem, and you make a sales pitch. smh

If the op needs a muzzle, they can go online and get one from Hallmark k9, and Jim Hall is very knowledgeable and can answer questions...He is the most prompt and dependable.

If it's not medical and he is getting enough excersize it's probably more habit behaviour.

Why not put an ecollar on him and as soon as he starts  give him a very low correction this way you do not need to be on the end of a leash or to be yelling at him to correct the undesired behaviour and it's less conflict between you and him because your remaining nutrel but he's is experiencing an immediate and constant correction. 

He should snap out of it pretty soon,but like ppl some dogs are smarter than others and it depends on how engrained the behaviour is. ( very low level on e collar) just enough to snap him out of it.

If it's tail chasing like bull terrier tail chasing, training can't fix it. 

LOL ! Joan -  obsessed?