by lordzero on 31 July 2019 - 21:07
I have been in contact with Patrick during this ordeal, i understood his frustration regarding not getting paid by Jenn and we were all waiting on the outcome of the job his lawyer was doing. I saw few exchanges between Patrick's lawyer and Jenn where she was making deals on payments but at the end she always came short on maintaining her end of the bargain. i contacted him at one point to work some kind of a deal so i could get the paper but he always wanted to go after Jenn for the money. He is a soldier and i have great respect for who sacrifice their lives in order to keep us safe, i don't believe he has any part on this scam orchestrated by Jenn, he could have easily asked for money but he didn't. i had a long conversation with him few days ago and as frustrated as he was for all this no-sense, he promised to send me the paper for the dog. I am sure he will maintain his word and I will check back with you all in a couple of months, if by the end of october i won't receive the paper then I will write back ... until then arrivederci
Admin kindly remove from the headline Haus Amberg if possible.
thank you all
by DuganVomEichenluft on 01 August 2019 - 10:08
by Hundmutter on 01 August 2019 - 14:08
Forgive me for saying the bleedin' obvious, lordzero, but that would be all well and good to say, and I for one would happily just shut up and 'wait & see' what has happened in a couple of months from now, if Patrick Lockhart had responded himself to this thred when asked to do so by the Admins, and if there were not still outstanding questions (see previous page). I certainly do not think the mods should rush to delete anything from the heading at this point.
by lordzero on 02 August 2019 - 01:08
by Hundmutter on 02 August 2019 - 06:08
by Western Rider on 02 August 2019 - 17:08
Hundmutter you posted this a few pages back and I never responded sorry.
by Hundmutter on 06 July 2019 - 07:07 (userip: 184.108.40.206)
WR, they can't 'just' put the papers on another dog and sell it. They can knowingly commit fraud and use the papers for another pup, sure !
I know people who have and do take papers from a dead dog or say one that does not look as good as they hope and put them on a different dog.
Unless someone does a DNA test either on that dog or a descendant it is never found out.
Happens all the time with horses.
by lordzero on 02 August 2019 - 18:08
by Hundmutter on 03 August 2019 - 07:08
I know people DO swap papers to inferior or dead dogs, of course. My point is that if a breeder does this, they know perfectly well that it would be regarded as fraudulent by the purchasing public, other breeders, all the Kennel Clubs, and almost certainly the Law if it ever gets to the courts. The fact that its easy to do doesn't legitimise it.
Hopefully this will become rarer as more & more people use parental DNA tests routinely.
I expect, worldwide, it happens with horses too; horse swaps don't immediately come to my mind because at least theorectically that is much more difficult within the UK's system of Passporting and freeze-numbering.
by TIG on 09 August 2019 - 02:08
Because he is in Europe and in the military a suit between Patrick and Jenn is much more convoluted involving venue, jurisdiction and service of process issues wh is why he wants you to go after her.
That being said he is risking his military career by being involved in this and not providing relief ( the papers) to innocent parties. His command would not be happy reading about this situation.
The SV is no different than the AKC. Both say private matter sort it out in court then come to us.
Plus they are right ( tho short sighted) re this being an issue between 2 Americans on US soil (Jenn & puppy buyer) so really can't fault them.
What states are the buyers in? In California the amounts are well under the max for small claims ( no lawyer costs AND in theft by deception/ contract cases I believe you can request punitive damages up to the max claim at -it's either 10k or 15K currently). Purpose of punitive is to prevent future bad acts and since this sounds like it's not her first time at the rodeo & there are multiple victims should be a good candidate for it.
Plus remember it's not just the papers it is the value of the time lost w these young dogs- lost opportunity cost. I would also suggest you try to get the cases consolidated - heard together. Courts like to save time & effort and should work to your advantage.
One thing that you also MUST DO is file a criminal complaint against her for theft. This is BOTH A crime AND a civil matter and can be simultaneously pursued. Plus a judge in criminal court can order restitution which if not paid can result in additional criminal penalties and/ or jail time.
Ask your lawyer about these two possible strategies - not sure if they can be done. 1. Ask for a tro - temp restraining order to prevent the sale of any pups since they are fungible goods and are likely the only assets that can be used to satisfy your claim if you win. You will have to make an offer of proof showing you are more likely to win. 2. Ask for an emergency hearing w short time notice (most jurisdictions have some version of this) because again you are dealing with fungible goods not just the asset puppies but your own dogs are losing value every day.
BTW Lawyers are procrastinators by nature. Used to joke it was a requirement to get into law school. Even in fast track states it is not unusual for a case to take 3 -6 years(thus the ever increasing small claim amts since it's a much faster venue). You have to light a fire under your lawyers butt and make him or her understand about lost opportunities, declining value etc etc. If you don't push they won't.
by Hundmutter on 09 August 2019 - 07:08
TIG that's probably the most useful contribution anyone has made to this thred, both for its clarification of the issues and its suggestions for a possible way forward. Hope the OP takes it on board. I certainly found it informative as to the American legal position. TY.
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