Handlers - Page 2

Mr. Carter, I have to inform you that you are incorrect in your statement. I too have handled my own dogs in the ring but that is not prefered. The dog owner should act as a double handler where calling the dog from in front to keep the dog pulling forward, and have its ears up with good expression showing. If the owner is behind the dog, usually it does not work as well. As far as an AKC handler in a german ring they have no place. An AKC handler does not know how important a double handler is, or have a good background of the German System. If I saw a suit prancing around the SV ring like in the AKC I would fall out of my chair. I am not putting down the AKC ring but simply saying they are diffrent. And Mr Carter, I am sure your friend who handled their own dog would fully agree with me.

IMO, owner handling is not really very bad. I have had good results myself. My major difficulty has been getting into sufficient number of shows personally, and lack of time to condition my dogs properly. Although I double handle my dogs all the time, offlate I have started to think if it is worth it. All the whistling and noise keeps my dogs alert anyway without me needing to run in front and shout. Maybe I should try without doubling in a local show and see what happens.

HOWDEDO, 1. Approximately what percentage of 'serious' GSD owners handle themselves(or immediate family)? Is it typical to hire a professional always? Owners can be defined differently. Maybe the proper term or question, is who raised the dog. The dog should not be handled by the person who raised or have bonded strongly to the person/individual. Owners in paper, can handle their dogs of course and the second handler, usually the person that the dog have bonded strongly to, prompts the dog to be more alert in the ring. A properly trained in the ring, show dog with strong drives, may not require as much second handling. Keep in mind that second handlers need to work with the first handler and vice versa, hence knowledge on ring showing SV style. I recommend the tape produced by canine training systems, for SV style showing. 2. Those of you paying for handlers, how do you choose one? what parameters do you use in selecting who will take fido into the ring? How long would you stick with your handler before you decide to fire him/her for incompetence? Question should be a reality check first! Does your dog have the ability, training, conformation. High profiled handlers, will not handle your dog if your dog does not have the ingredients. They will not risk it. If your dog really is good then you want a handler with a good history of who they handled with success. Use the services of successful local breeders or importers. There is no time to determine when to stick or fire a handler during the show. Will be late at that time. When you are placed at the bottom at that particular show, even the handler of Larus Batu or the judge's personal handler can not help you. 3. What are the prevailing rates? Regional shows are charge as mentioned above base on entry. Friends or acquaintances can be free. For Sieger shows, depending on age group/class. Open class can be as much as $200 to possibly $500. Usually these are German handlers, brought in by importers/breeders. They have to profit or break even this persons air fare you know. Some German breeders, if you buy a dog between 15K to as much as you can afford, may include shipping and handling the dog for you on major shows, i.e. Package deal. Ideally, this is a family/team event. It is about time for clubs to learn ring training in addition to Sch. I do not believe in Germany, handlers charge as much as what we pay for here in USA. The law of supply and demand. I saw old and young handlers. LLearn the basics of SV style shows. It is more than running around the ring and calling the dog. First handlers and second handlers have to work in unison. JMHO, Roger

These rates($500) are way above local rates in germany. but there, lot of serious breeders have regular handlers and the volume will make up for lower rates. I am very good with training dogs and am a pretty ok handler too. however there is always more to learn. More than conditioning dogs - i guess i should condition myself . I am planning to show a male later this year in Germany, and after that bring him here. I know upfront that I would not have the time to show him extensively and hence wanted to find out about the handlers here. I have one more question - Can I house my dog with some one for conditioning before the show season? Are there good kennels which offer this service in AZ or CA? I need some place where I can check in regularly to see for myself.

Howdedo, I know a German trainer who resides in California. Please contact me for his info. e-mail me at ... trainer@haddenhall.com

funk man, you are the best

Fokwolf: My friend handled their own dog in the German sieger show to SG-3. My friend has handled all of their own dogs for decades with very good sucess. Again, if the dog is trained CORRECTLY, they know to move out and look ahead, the doubler does not have to be the owner....it can be anyone with a toy or just calling the dogs name at the right time....again...with a CORRECTLY trained dog, massive doubling is NOT necessary. My point about AKC handlers being better, is because they take the time to PROPERLY PRESENT the dog to the judge and watch the judge to make sure their dog looks it's best when the judge happens to look their way, unlike most german handlers (or american's for that matter). Most German handlers are to busy talking to other handlers while the judge is looking at their dogs, they don't bother to stack them correctly and make little effort to have the dogs called at the right time to get the most out of the dog. Yes, AKC handlers can run around the ring...handling in the German ring is not a big deal and is not overly physically demanding...just look at the BROAD girths of many german handlers for example.

"watch the judge to make sure their dog looks it's best when the judge happens to look their way, unlike most german handlers (or american's for that matter). Most German handlers are to busy talking to other handlers while the judge is looking at their dogs, they don't bother to stack them correctly and make little effort to have the dogs called at the right time to get the most out of the dog. " I don't know where and how you made this experience. But it must ahev been a bunch of people not taking showing very seriousely, hence not professional handlers. Proper German handlers know their job and do it correctly.

Schaeferhund, I can only agree. I go to a lot of Zuchtshau's in Germany/Holland and I only see a very professional way of handling. After it's all over, then there is time to bullshit. Furthermore, you could hire the very "best" handler in the world but if you have a dog what shouldn't place in the top, it's not the handlers fault. Or is it? For yourself you should know your dog faults. At a show you can only try to defer the judges attention at something positive on the dog. And that is just a good handlers job!! BTW, this issue has been talked about before.

Mr. Carter, I agree that the well trained dog would be able to pull that off. There are execptions to every rule. But from what I have witnessed here in the US, a lot of the handlers are doing a poor job presenting the dogs. When you know what you are doing it shows. As far as some of the top German Handlers not doing the best job, then you are starting to talk ego's and politics, which I stay away from. But for the record I think the well trained dog could do anything it was trained to do. But I still think in the younger classes and for dogs that aren't trained as well as your friends dogs are, a good handler should be used.