Breeding a Mega Esophagus Carrier - Page 4

I meant ONCE was enough in terms of ONCE THEY KNEW where (or had a really good guess where) it was coming from. Of course, if there's only one pup and you have no idea where it came from, say in the case of repeated litters that were previously clear, then that's a different story and could be a gray area. I guess I would interview as many sibling/relative owners as I could and see what their experiences were.  If a dog had sired 10 litters, no issues, then had a litter w/2 mega-e pups w/a different bitch, especially a first timer, I'm inclined to "blame" the bitch, and vice versa. 

Because dogs have so many pups at once, that's all the more reason to be careful. Finding out a dog produces serious health issues once they've just dropped their second litter of 12 isn't the greatest situation.  Personally, I think a good strategy is to not breed back to back on unproven combos or new bitches or studs. Let the first "crop" grow enough that you can at least prelim them, or at least most of them,  before breeding the second batch. Things like mega-e or missing dentition would also show up by this time so you'd have a pretty clear idea about the pairing. 

Capri has over 20 pups out there, over a 3yr period. I wouldn't condemn someone for that in and of itself, if that's what you're insinuating. I'm judging breeding a known carrier of mega-e (or whatever else), not judging on how many litters or how many pups a dog has, or even in what time frame, though I personally prefer not to breed back to back. 

I knew of one PRAA dog who wasn't diagnosed until he was 3 (supposedly...it was a very weird story!). His breeding had been done several times prior and several times after, as he wasn't diagnosed until much later, and zero other issues were reported in any siblings, either half or full. There does seem to be supporting evidence for a congenital defect rather than solidly hereditary, doesn't there? 

I have done due diligence and googled megaE. 
There is page after page written, but surprisingly, not much actual research. I guess Clemson University being the best I found. And what I found there is that it can be either dominant and passed by one parent or recessive and passed by both.

So, unless there is a for sure genetic test, I do not fault a serious breeder for trying again.

The post by crhuerta echoes the very same "wisdom of the sages" that I have been given from the beginning. If one becomes obsessed with negatives, one will never breed anything. But how do you explain something like this and not come across sounding like breeding anything and everything is acceptable.

Anyone who breeds dogs will sooner or later step into a pile of sh*t. Some clean it off and learn to be more careful where they step. Some cover it with a shovel full of dirt and soon forget (or deny) it happened.

jmo,
Rik

 "Personally, I think a good strategy is to not breed back to back on unproven combos or new bitches or studs. Let the first "crop" grow enough that you can at least prelim them, or at least most of them,  before breeding the second batch. Things like mega-e or missing dentition would also show up by this time so you'd have a pretty clear idea about the pairing. "

"though I personally prefer not to breed back to back. "





Did I read this right?!  No, it couldn't be!  That is just too  SC to be real!

 

Math must not be your thing. Shocking.

Let's see, if Capri cycles 3x per year, and I have had her 3.5 years, that would be 10.5 litters. Hmmm. Something doesn't seem right. 

If a breeding dog repeatedly shows some issues in the puppies, one has to really think about their own breeding program. I don't give a hoot if they are ME,DM, HD or any other hereditary issues.

If a dog produces one litter with issues.... that is just it!People, genetics are a royal BITCH, you can have all the info, line up and still shit will come out. I know I deal with is all the time in the lab.... that is just it! Breeding is figuring out what works and doesn't work, which usually shows in two three generations rather than a single one. That is why I am so focused on purchasing dogs from experienced breeders..the rest can go and believe a beginner mambo self inflected super wisdom jumbo.. I go to people who will tell me with open eyes that yes, breeding is not as easy as many make it sound!


One has to use a healthy judgment, open eyes and some common sense coupled with inquired knowledge. At times take a risk, and be honest. I am sorry but a breeder who constantly shoves his/her super dooper wonder awesomeness into my face is just simply not a breeder..it is a business man who needs to sell puppies!

The best breeders sit tight and produces nice puppies over and over and over.. the less awesome puppies are placed in homes and exhibit really good health. If an issue arises, there is not cover up, rather a new information that needs to be considered in the future.

Would I breed a dog that produced ME? I don't know because I would need to know much more than just this little info. I have never run into Me myself but I have excluded a female that had to go C-section the very first time she had a litter, I imagine I would exclude ME producer as well. The individual dog I use and the progeny is more important to my good night sleep than few extra bucks.


Jenni, to add: If a female cycles every 4 months, there is an issue (often hormonal) and mostly the female will not conceive since her body has not had a chance to heal. If people have a four month bitch, the vets will put the female on drops to push the cycle so there is a chance of the female even get pregnant. A pregnancy can fix this problem and push the following cycles for a while, or sometimes only for the next one before the female goes back to 4 months again, it varies.

I would not personally breed a four month bitch as this is hereditary and known in some lines. I know three daughters of one female that have the same problem!!!

I totally agree with not breeding a bitch again who needed a c-section. Good for you, Martina.

Again, I am not a professional breeder, so I can't really judge what someone earning a living at breeding dogs does, as their goals and mine are totally different. But I definitely think I would still try to err on the side of natural selection when making breeding decisions, puppies to sell or not. 

Again, I am not a professional breeder

Again, I am not a professional breeder

 

I had to see that twice, before I could actually believe I was reading this! LOLOL   Could have sworn you have made countless postings that have to do with breeding advice, self-help medical experience and bragging rights about those double digit numbers of pups being produced.



 

Jenni, do you truly not "get it"?

Rik,
You are correct. It can be either autosomal recessive or autosomal dominant with incomplete penetrance. Clemson University is doing all of the research and working towards a test.

Now, I am going to have to correct several people. PRAA is completely different from genetic megaesophagus. There are 2 different types of ME, primary and secondary (aquired). Both types are seen in puppies with the majority being primary (or congenital) idiopathic megaesophagus. This is caused by nothing other than genetics. When a puppy shows with aquired, it is caused by one of 2 things, PRAA and a vascular ring. This is completely different!

Adult dogs very rarely show up with primary idiopathic megaesophagus. I think the only reason they may, and this is just my opinion, is that they had it as a pup but it was so mild it was never diagnosed. The majority of adult dogs have aquired, normalyy caused by addison's MG, etc.

http://www.akcchf.org/research/funded-research/0934.html 

This is a link to a bit more info on Mega E and PRAA. It doesn't look as if this study has resulted in any conclusive information on the mode of inheritance of either.