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by 1doggie2 on 03 March 2010 - 07:03
I have often wondered at people or breeders who rehome the dogs that have known issues, you see them posted on the board all the time. If the dog has issues with children and is rehomed to someone who is single, you think it is now safe, they do not have family and friends?
If we do not start to educate the Joe Public about dogs and saftey, this will continue. The posters who comment on 2 or more dogs, raging hormones, Flipppen mothers who will walk a soccer field with their child in tow and circle around my rott to pet a resuce GSD who loves Ice Cream and the child is dripping in it, they do not get I am out there all alone for a reason and they are feeling safe with the wrong dog!
I made a horrible mistake in raising one of my rotts (and I knew better, just did not think it thru), I had preteens and forgot they are not small children, they were childern in my mind. So I did not take him to the kiddie parks and expose him to the little ones. I could never put him with anything smaller than he was, his prey drive was off the charts when he was young. This could have been a disaster of my own making. Just becuse you do not have childern in the home anymore does not mean your dog does not need to be kid safe. This was a mistake I will never repeat!
If we do not start to educate the Joe Public about dogs and saftey, this will continue. The posters who comment on 2 or more dogs, raging hormones, Flipppen mothers who will walk a soccer field with their child in tow and circle around my rott to pet a resuce GSD who loves Ice Cream and the child is dripping in it, they do not get I am out there all alone for a reason and they are feeling safe with the wrong dog!
I made a horrible mistake in raising one of my rotts (and I knew better, just did not think it thru), I had preteens and forgot they are not small children, they were childern in my mind. So I did not take him to the kiddie parks and expose him to the little ones. I could never put him with anything smaller than he was, his prey drive was off the charts when he was young. This could have been a disaster of my own making. Just becuse you do not have childern in the home anymore does not mean your dog does not need to be kid safe. This was a mistake I will never repeat!
by 1doggie2 on 03 March 2010 - 07:03
I also agree with Hodie, arrogance and dogs do not make for a safe enviroment.
by Jenni78 on 03 March 2010 - 13:03
1doggie2, I don't understand what you mean here: The posters who comment on 2 or more dogs, raging hormones, Flipppen mothers who will walk a soccer field with their child in tow and circle around my rott to pet a resuce GSD who loves Ice Cream and the child is dripping in it, they do not get I am out there all alone for a reason and they are feeling safe with the wrong dog!
I think you are wrong to say you made a mistake raising your Rotts. If your Rott was that unbalanced that it would have to be taken to parks and exposed frequently to small children in order to not see them as prey, then I think your dog was genetically weak and not a dog I would ever own. People want high prey drive- fine. Prey drive relates directly to survival; people need to stop acting as if it's some special skill thought up by a SchH competitor. ALL DOGS have prey drive. The key is management, balance, strength of temperament, and CLEAR HEADEDNESS. Socialize all you want; you won't change the dog. If anything, you will simply mask underlying weakness making it that much more dangerous because you get comfortable and slip up, just once.
If one of my dogs had even been hesitant toward my baby when I brought him home, or done anything to hint that they might not be comfortable around small children/babies or possibly view him as prey (which he is not- children are humans and humans are not natural prey to a balanced dog!), the dog would be no longer with us. Take that to mean what you want it to mean.
As far as rehoming, I partly agree with you, but I don't think it's fair to make a blanket statement and say no dog w/"issues" should ever be rehomed. If the dog is unbalanced or unstable, then I agree- clean the mess yourself. Put it out of its misery; don't pass it on to someone and leave them with the chance to mismanage it and cause a tragedy. Having said that, I don't trust most people's interpretation of canine behavior well enough to qualify them to make life or death decisions on dogs 9 times out of 10. I have heard dogs being put down for the DUMBEST reasons when anyone w/half a brain could've looked at the situation and seen the problem was the owner, and then you have the morons who would rather medicate their nerve bag piece of shit who bites everyone it can from behind as they're passing by than admit the dog needs to be exposed to toxic levels of lead all in one dose.
I think you are wrong to say you made a mistake raising your Rotts. If your Rott was that unbalanced that it would have to be taken to parks and exposed frequently to small children in order to not see them as prey, then I think your dog was genetically weak and not a dog I would ever own. People want high prey drive- fine. Prey drive relates directly to survival; people need to stop acting as if it's some special skill thought up by a SchH competitor. ALL DOGS have prey drive. The key is management, balance, strength of temperament, and CLEAR HEADEDNESS. Socialize all you want; you won't change the dog. If anything, you will simply mask underlying weakness making it that much more dangerous because you get comfortable and slip up, just once.
If one of my dogs had even been hesitant toward my baby when I brought him home, or done anything to hint that they might not be comfortable around small children/babies or possibly view him as prey (which he is not- children are humans and humans are not natural prey to a balanced dog!), the dog would be no longer with us. Take that to mean what you want it to mean.
As far as rehoming, I partly agree with you, but I don't think it's fair to make a blanket statement and say no dog w/"issues" should ever be rehomed. If the dog is unbalanced or unstable, then I agree- clean the mess yourself. Put it out of its misery; don't pass it on to someone and leave them with the chance to mismanage it and cause a tragedy. Having said that, I don't trust most people's interpretation of canine behavior well enough to qualify them to make life or death decisions on dogs 9 times out of 10. I have heard dogs being put down for the DUMBEST reasons when anyone w/half a brain could've looked at the situation and seen the problem was the owner, and then you have the morons who would rather medicate their nerve bag piece of shit who bites everyone it can from behind as they're passing by than admit the dog needs to be exposed to toxic levels of lead all in one dose.
by mobjack on 03 March 2010 - 14:03
Windy,
Food for thought: There was no "letting" or "allowing" that day and the lab was Allison's oldest's child's service dog. That should speak enough for the dog's temperament and training. You proved my point exactly, thank you very much. Would I let an 18 month old child ride a horse alone? NO way not ever. That's the absolute height of stupidity. I've seen what can happen when children are left alone with horses because the adults adopt a lackadasial attitude and become too comfortable. You can "hand pick" your animals and train all you want. We have all had that "he's never done that before" moment during training or at a trial, no matter how well trained the animal is. It's an animal, dog, cat, horse, hamster, whatever. Not a robot. You can't predict what will happen in any given situation. Your kids, your animals, do what you want. I hope your kids don't end up paying for your foolishness.
Moving on from useless, Jenni says
<<
Couldn't agree more with this.
Food for thought: There was no "letting" or "allowing" that day and the lab was Allison's oldest's child's service dog. That should speak enough for the dog's temperament and training. You proved my point exactly, thank you very much. Would I let an 18 month old child ride a horse alone? NO way not ever. That's the absolute height of stupidity. I've seen what can happen when children are left alone with horses because the adults adopt a lackadasial attitude and become too comfortable. You can "hand pick" your animals and train all you want. We have all had that "he's never done that before" moment during training or at a trial, no matter how well trained the animal is. It's an animal, dog, cat, horse, hamster, whatever. Not a robot. You can't predict what will happen in any given situation. Your kids, your animals, do what you want. I hope your kids don't end up paying for your foolishness.
Moving on from useless, Jenni says
<<
| I don't think it's fair to make a blanket statement and say no dog w/"issues" should ever be rehomed. If the dog is unbalanced or unstable, then I agree- clean the mess yourself. Put it out of its misery; don't pass it on to someone and leave them with the chance to mismanage it and cause a tragedy. Having said that, I don't trust most people's interpretation of canine behavior well enough to qualify them to make life or death decisions on dogs 9 times out of 10. I have heard dogs being put down for the DUMBEST reasons when anyone w/half a brain could've looked at the situation and seen the problem was the owner, and then you have the morons who would rather medicate their nerve bag piece of shit who bites everyone it can from behind as they're passing by than admit the dog needs to be exposed to toxic levels of lead all in one dose. |
Couldn't agree more with this.
by DuvalGSD on 03 March 2010 - 14:03
LAVK-9
did you give the ritti back to the mexican family ...? What ever happened to the dog....You kind left us hanging on the Story!!
did you give the ritti back to the mexican family ...? What ever happened to the dog....You kind left us hanging on the Story!!
by wlpool on 03 March 2010 - 15:03
Mobjack,
You prove my point that people in this group just jump to conclusions. I have NEVER left my children alone with any of the horses! Even the best horse CAN (not to say they will, just that they can) spook because it is in their nature as prey to cut and run when scared. Yes, that would be stupid and if you had asked me you would have known that would be my answer. My children compete on their horses and with much success and ride really well. They spend much time in the saddle with Mom and and other horse professionals INSTRUCTING THEM. The horses are very good at staying "under" a little rider and being cautious about where they swat their tails and put their feet. That is what makes a good kid horse. Do I think the older child could be left alone? Without a doubt! Am I ready to leave her alone? NOT YET. When my kids have LEARNED proper horse educate they will be let alone with the horses, but unlike the dogs, working with horses safely requires much more skill and knowledge. Am I certain that my old mare would take every precaution to watch over my kids? You betcha!
As for the dogs Here is my take on it which I am NOT saying is end all be all. It is what I THINK and force it on no one.
Dogs are not prey animals that are predators. By nature dogs/wolves/hyenas live in these things called packs and in these packs there are a very few in charge. In wolves, its normally the two breeding pair. Now, in the wild they will have very small puppies and those puppies are VERY vulnerable and can be killed or injured by an older sibling easily. Why then do Alpha male and Alpha Female go off to hunt and leave the vulnerable pups with the older siblings? Because the older siblings have learned and have instinct that the smaller creatures are to be cared for and watched over DELICATELY. Those are NOT their pups, yet the respect the Alpha's position and care for the little ones while as if they were. Now I am not saying there are not times that bad things happen just as with people it comes down to the ability to train, by the person in charge. Alpha male and female may not run off an aggressive older sibling right away and that may lead to pups being lost. BUT, in general if they weren't good at learning HOW TO GENTLY CARE FOR THE LITTLE ONES THEY WOULD BE NO MORE. Here it is the same. They are taught that my kids, your kids, and their kids are still KIDS and need to have that special treatment at all costs. Am I saying that I will NEVER have and accident? NO, I am saying that I am LESS likely to have an accident than others that don't invest their time in training to this speciality.
IMHO,
W
You prove my point that people in this group just jump to conclusions. I have NEVER left my children alone with any of the horses! Even the best horse CAN (not to say they will, just that they can) spook because it is in their nature as prey to cut and run when scared. Yes, that would be stupid and if you had asked me you would have known that would be my answer. My children compete on their horses and with much success and ride really well. They spend much time in the saddle with Mom and and other horse professionals INSTRUCTING THEM. The horses are very good at staying "under" a little rider and being cautious about where they swat their tails and put their feet. That is what makes a good kid horse. Do I think the older child could be left alone? Without a doubt! Am I ready to leave her alone? NOT YET. When my kids have LEARNED proper horse educate they will be let alone with the horses, but unlike the dogs, working with horses safely requires much more skill and knowledge. Am I certain that my old mare would take every precaution to watch over my kids? You betcha!
As for the dogs Here is my take on it which I am NOT saying is end all be all. It is what I THINK and force it on no one.
Dogs are not prey animals that are predators. By nature dogs/wolves/hyenas live in these things called packs and in these packs there are a very few in charge. In wolves, its normally the two breeding pair. Now, in the wild they will have very small puppies and those puppies are VERY vulnerable and can be killed or injured by an older sibling easily. Why then do Alpha male and Alpha Female go off to hunt and leave the vulnerable pups with the older siblings? Because the older siblings have learned and have instinct that the smaller creatures are to be cared for and watched over DELICATELY. Those are NOT their pups, yet the respect the Alpha's position and care for the little ones while as if they were. Now I am not saying there are not times that bad things happen just as with people it comes down to the ability to train, by the person in charge. Alpha male and female may not run off an aggressive older sibling right away and that may lead to pups being lost. BUT, in general if they weren't good at learning HOW TO GENTLY CARE FOR THE LITTLE ONES THEY WOULD BE NO MORE. Here it is the same. They are taught that my kids, your kids, and their kids are still KIDS and need to have that special treatment at all costs. Am I saying that I will NEVER have and accident? NO, I am saying that I am LESS likely to have an accident than others that don't invest their time in training to this speciality.
IMHO,
W
by TessJ10 on 03 March 2010 - 16:03
You are forgetting that a correction administered by a canid "caring for the little ones" that would be no harm to a puppy canid can be quite harmful to a human child.
by hodie on 03 March 2010 - 16:03
Pool doesn't even know what she writes: On a former post she wrote: "Most people don't let their 18 month olds ride a horse alone either. I do." Another sterling example of flawed understanding and/or thought process is this sentence she writes from above: "Dogs are not prey animals that are predators." What are they then?
Blitzen said it, we all know it. "You can't fix stupid" and we should likely add "you can't fix arrogance or people who lack common sense". Further, no one is impressed by her ramblings, her stock, her "skill in training", etc. etc.
Blitzen said it, we all know it. "You can't fix stupid" and we should likely add "you can't fix arrogance or people who lack common sense". Further, no one is impressed by her ramblings, her stock, her "skill in training", etc. etc.
by wlpool on 03 March 2010 - 16:03
Bienenkönigin
Yep, it takes the negative person to IMAGINE the most negative scenario. I LET MY 18 MONTH OLD RIDE ALONE NOT BE LEFT ALONE WHILE SHE IS DOING IT! She had a spotter until she was 3. Someone that was beside the horse JUST IN CASE! Negative Bienenkönigin.
Oh, miss know it all doesn't know the difference between the predator and it's prey? LMAO
It is so unfortunate that you can't fix negative broken people such as yourself.
by Two Moons on 03 March 2010 - 16:03
Your not going to win.
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