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by wlpool on 03 March 2010 - 04:03
With me, my children grew with rules just as you teach a child to walk we taught them to be a certain way with dogs. I think you will see as your child grows with the dogs he will be very good at reading them, unless he has a traumatic exerience early on which sounds like he won't. My 5 year old is pretty good. My 3 year old still needs cues now and then. But, then again a GSD was in the room when the 5 year old was born. She and he were very close. But, thinking about it, he was REALLY close to both of the girls. I feel that he loved them more than life itself and would do for them while in pain simply out of love or maybe sense of responsibilty. He may have been special that way.
W
by Mystere on 03 March 2010 - 04:03
This thread is about a child being KILLED can we please at least this once keep the thread respectful? Dispense with the name-calling and the attempts to highjack the thread. If you really cannot conduct yourself in a civil and adult manner, don't be surprised with similar responses.
¶You truly cannot fix stupid.
by AKGeorgias mom on 03 March 2010 - 04:03
Jenni78-
I totally agree with you. I worry my kids aren't afraid of any dogs because they are so used to living with dogs that are calm, confident and under control. Of course, we also teach our kids dog ettiquette - to ask the owner before petting, to never run up to a strange dog, and how to tell if a dog is nervous or agitated. We usually learn quite a bit when we go to the pet store and other people bring their dogs. Last week my oldest asked me why the dogs were all scared to be there (they were shaking and had tucked tails), and we had a good discussion about how to know if you should take your dog somewhere.
Since our son is blind and works with a teacher that uses a seeing-eye dog, we also talk about what it means for a dog to be working, and how to behave around a working dog versus a pet dog. It's common sense stuff, but a lot of people don't think to teach these things until after something bad happens.
Opal
I totally agree with you. I worry my kids aren't afraid of any dogs because they are so used to living with dogs that are calm, confident and under control. Of course, we also teach our kids dog ettiquette - to ask the owner before petting, to never run up to a strange dog, and how to tell if a dog is nervous or agitated. We usually learn quite a bit when we go to the pet store and other people bring their dogs. Last week my oldest asked me why the dogs were all scared to be there (they were shaking and had tucked tails), and we had a good discussion about how to know if you should take your dog somewhere.
Since our son is blind and works with a teacher that uses a seeing-eye dog, we also talk about what it means for a dog to be working, and how to behave around a working dog versus a pet dog. It's common sense stuff, but a lot of people don't think to teach these things until after something bad happens.
Opal
by Jenni78 on 03 March 2010 - 04:03
Nia, thank you for knowing how to read. GS4all made my point exactly, and yet thought he/she was arguing w/me...LMAO. See, folks? It truly DOES take all kinds! LOL.
If I have to explain why 2 dogs is different than one, well, let's just say you're not fit to have dogs or children. Best go get yourself a pet rock and go back to watching something more on your level, like Jerry Springer, maybe. To allow 2 Rotts (or Poodles) to "play" w/a toddler is idiotic. I'm devastated for them as parents losing a child, but more devastated for the poor child having them as parents.
To those who bring breed into this; the ONLY reason breed is relevant is that because they are perceived as 'tougher' breeds, MORONS often have SEVERAL of these breeds and being MORONS, they don't manage them properly. They allow them to run loose together and have no idea what they're causing by this. Yes, many more idiots have several Pits, molossers, or Rotts, or ABs, etc., than other breeds, because they're trendy, and hence, you hear more serious attacks from these breeds (in the instances that these are REALLY the dogs to blame..and there are plenty of times when they're not). These people know nothing of animal behavior and essentially are coexisiting with a pack of wild animals- not living with one or two pets. All bets are off with wild animals, and multiple dogs "managed" by morons are no different than wild animals. End of story.
Windy, and whoever else talked about dogs and kids...the reason I worry is that I have so many, and their temperaments, while different from each other, are identical toward him- because I wouldn't own any less. It's not like I have just one or two, and he'll see plenty of bitework, etc. I worry that because he lives and loves dogs other people deem "aggressive" that he'll have some idea (over-confidence, perhaps) that he can play w/ANY dog, because even his "biting" dogs love him and wouldn't hurt him. THAT is my concern. When he's 13, not so much; more like the first few times he goes to a friend's house in elementary school. So, I'm starting early w/reading dogs and pounding into his head to LEAVE OTHER DOGS ALONE- YOU HAVE SEVEN OF YOUR OWN, DAMN IT! lol.
Seriously though, I hear things all the time from parents I know that make me shudder- "oh, he's friendly- see? He's wagging his tail." They've said it about my dogs on occasion where my dog was being anything but friendly. "He came up to say hi to me." Um, no, he came up to see why the hell you were on my property. As long as there are idiots in the world, I'm training my child to leave dogs alone for all practical purposes unless I personally- not so-and-so's mom or dad- say it's OK to interact w/them. Unlike most of society today, I take responsibility for both my dogs and my child.
Excellent point about horses, whoever brought that up. There's a thing I read somewhere that said "a child is 200x more likely to be killed by his mother than his dog-perhaps PETA will try to ban mothers next." While one death is too many, when you look at the sheer number of idiots and sheer number of dogs (take Pits for example- there are hundreds of thousands) it is really quite a low statistic of fatalities. I do think some of it is just that news travels in ways it didn't used to before the advent of the internet. It seems like we hear terrible stories all the time; do they happen more or do we just hear more about them? Also, we're living in the age of "it's someone else's responsibility" and also in an age where we are physically closer to each other than ever before...country days and country dogs and kids playing outside is becoming something we only see in Norman Rockwell paintings. All of these play a role, IMO. And yes, I will say w
If I have to explain why 2 dogs is different than one, well, let's just say you're not fit to have dogs or children. Best go get yourself a pet rock and go back to watching something more on your level, like Jerry Springer, maybe. To allow 2 Rotts (or Poodles) to "play" w/a toddler is idiotic. I'm devastated for them as parents losing a child, but more devastated for the poor child having them as parents.
To those who bring breed into this; the ONLY reason breed is relevant is that because they are perceived as 'tougher' breeds, MORONS often have SEVERAL of these breeds and being MORONS, they don't manage them properly. They allow them to run loose together and have no idea what they're causing by this. Yes, many more idiots have several Pits, molossers, or Rotts, or ABs, etc., than other breeds, because they're trendy, and hence, you hear more serious attacks from these breeds (in the instances that these are REALLY the dogs to blame..and there are plenty of times when they're not). These people know nothing of animal behavior and essentially are coexisiting with a pack of wild animals- not living with one or two pets. All bets are off with wild animals, and multiple dogs "managed" by morons are no different than wild animals. End of story.
Windy, and whoever else talked about dogs and kids...the reason I worry is that I have so many, and their temperaments, while different from each other, are identical toward him- because I wouldn't own any less. It's not like I have just one or two, and he'll see plenty of bitework, etc. I worry that because he lives and loves dogs other people deem "aggressive" that he'll have some idea (over-confidence, perhaps) that he can play w/ANY dog, because even his "biting" dogs love him and wouldn't hurt him. THAT is my concern. When he's 13, not so much; more like the first few times he goes to a friend's house in elementary school. So, I'm starting early w/reading dogs and pounding into his head to LEAVE OTHER DOGS ALONE- YOU HAVE SEVEN OF YOUR OWN, DAMN IT! lol.
Seriously though, I hear things all the time from parents I know that make me shudder- "oh, he's friendly- see? He's wagging his tail." They've said it about my dogs on occasion where my dog was being anything but friendly. "He came up to say hi to me." Um, no, he came up to see why the hell you were on my property. As long as there are idiots in the world, I'm training my child to leave dogs alone for all practical purposes unless I personally- not so-and-so's mom or dad- say it's OK to interact w/them. Unlike most of society today, I take responsibility for both my dogs and my child.
Excellent point about horses, whoever brought that up. There's a thing I read somewhere that said "a child is 200x more likely to be killed by his mother than his dog-perhaps PETA will try to ban mothers next." While one death is too many, when you look at the sheer number of idiots and sheer number of dogs (take Pits for example- there are hundreds of thousands) it is really quite a low statistic of fatalities. I do think some of it is just that news travels in ways it didn't used to before the advent of the internet. It seems like we hear terrible stories all the time; do they happen more or do we just hear more about them? Also, we're living in the age of "it's someone else's responsibility" and also in an age where we are physically closer to each other than ever before...country days and country dogs and kids playing outside is becoming something we only see in Norman Rockwell paintings. All of these play a role, IMO. And yes, I will say w
by wlpool on 03 March 2010 - 04:03
LOL, to true.
W
W
by Jenni78 on 03 March 2010 - 04:03
GRRRR, got cut off. My last sentence was : And yes, I will say we tolerate weakness in dogs that we shouldn't and didn't used to. A "bad" dog used to be shot. Today, he's medicated.
by mobjack on 03 March 2010 - 04:03
I wasn't going to say anyting on this thread but after the day I've had with irresponsible people and animals screw it.
I'm sorry that little girl was killed. it must have been horrible for her and be a nightmare for her family. But you know what, I have NO sympathy for the parents. It is totally their fault. They knew they had an aggressive dog. One of their Rotts had already bitten another family member. Who is that stupid to leave a small child alone with a dog with a known bite history.
Windy Pool,
If you think having a dog that's "totally bombproof around kids" makes it OK to leave your small children alone with them and assume that nothing will ever happen, then you are nothing less than an irresponsible parent and a pathetic pet owner. Makes no difference if the dog, ANY dog would never intentionally hurt a child. Accidents happen, dogs can and DO snap out of reaction, not intent. No dog is "totally bombproof". If you really think so, my friend Allison will tell you otherwise. Her "perfect pet, raised five little kids" LAB snapped one day and severely bit her 3 year old daughter in the face. An accident! The three year old snuck over and picked a screwdriver from the repairman's belt. The little girl took off running with it as a joke and laughing. Until she tripped and fell over the dog and stabbed it with the screwdriver when she fell. The lab reacted and the little girl got bitten. AN ACCIDENT. Three adults in the same room supervising and it could not be prevented. But it could have been much worse if we were all not there and acted instantly. By the way which one of your little girls is it in the picture with her arm in a sling? Accidents happen and from that photo you should know that.
Spout all you want about your accomplishments or what ever. Your credibility here is ZERO. Too many people remember your dramas and BS on this board. Enough of that garbage already. Just shoo.
I'm sorry that little girl was killed. it must have been horrible for her and be a nightmare for her family. But you know what, I have NO sympathy for the parents. It is totally their fault. They knew they had an aggressive dog. One of their Rotts had already bitten another family member. Who is that stupid to leave a small child alone with a dog with a known bite history.
Windy Pool,
If you think having a dog that's "totally bombproof around kids" makes it OK to leave your small children alone with them and assume that nothing will ever happen, then you are nothing less than an irresponsible parent and a pathetic pet owner. Makes no difference if the dog, ANY dog would never intentionally hurt a child. Accidents happen, dogs can and DO snap out of reaction, not intent. No dog is "totally bombproof". If you really think so, my friend Allison will tell you otherwise. Her "perfect pet, raised five little kids" LAB snapped one day and severely bit her 3 year old daughter in the face. An accident! The three year old snuck over and picked a screwdriver from the repairman's belt. The little girl took off running with it as a joke and laughing. Until she tripped and fell over the dog and stabbed it with the screwdriver when she fell. The lab reacted and the little girl got bitten. AN ACCIDENT. Three adults in the same room supervising and it could not be prevented. But it could have been much worse if we were all not there and acted instantly. By the way which one of your little girls is it in the picture with her arm in a sling? Accidents happen and from that photo you should know that.
Spout all you want about your accomplishments or what ever. Your credibility here is ZERO. Too many people remember your dramas and BS on this board. Enough of that garbage already. Just shoo.
by wlpool on 03 March 2010 - 05:03
Mobjack,
Yep, accidents happen. I could be killed tomorrow by a drunk driver. It's not likely, but yes it could happen. I don't own labs or children who run with screwdrivers, but yes it could happen. My point is life is a game of change. We try to make the dice roll more in our favor, buy wearing seat belts, strapping our children into car seats and YES, TRAINING THE DOGS. Most people don't let their 18 month olds ride a horse alone either. I do. I am not you. I do what is right for my family and for my family training kid friendly dogs and horses is the name of the game. I hand train my dogs and horses to fit our needs and am very confidant in the job I do for my family as it is my number 1 job and I am a perfectionist. But, you wouldn't know that unless you knew me.
I will bet that lab didn't train everyday with Allison. Just food for thought.
There is more than one right answer here as with many threads. You don't have to do as I do, but I don't go around knocking your way of doing things and you should give the same courtesy.
W
Yep, accidents happen. I could be killed tomorrow by a drunk driver. It's not likely, but yes it could happen. I don't own labs or children who run with screwdrivers, but yes it could happen. My point is life is a game of change. We try to make the dice roll more in our favor, buy wearing seat belts, strapping our children into car seats and YES, TRAINING THE DOGS. Most people don't let their 18 month olds ride a horse alone either. I do. I am not you. I do what is right for my family and for my family training kid friendly dogs and horses is the name of the game. I hand train my dogs and horses to fit our needs and am very confidant in the job I do for my family as it is my number 1 job and I am a perfectionist. But, you wouldn't know that unless you knew me.
I will bet that lab didn't train everyday with Allison. Just food for thought.
There is more than one right answer here as with many threads. You don't have to do as I do, but I don't go around knocking your way of doing things and you should give the same courtesy.
W
by Donald Deluxe on 03 March 2010 - 06:03
"There is more than one right answer here as with many threads."
I doubt you will find a single person here who will agree that it is acceptable to leave children under the age of 7 alone with a dog, regardless of how well the dog and/or the kids have been trained. The dog simply has too much of a physical advantage over babies, toddlers and pre-schoolers to make any avoidable risk acceptable.
I doubt you will find a single person here who will agree that it is acceptable to leave children under the age of 7 alone with a dog, regardless of how well the dog and/or the kids have been trained. The dog simply has too much of a physical advantage over babies, toddlers and pre-schoolers to make any avoidable risk acceptable.
by Mindhunt on 03 March 2010 - 06:03
Once again, irresponsible dog ownership combined with laizze faire attitude about children.
I NEVER left my son or my dogs unsupervised. As a paramedic and a firefighter, I know how unbelievably quickly quality of life can change. A split second is all it take to change lives forever. Maybe that is why I am paranoid and rather obsessive about supervision of dogs and children in my family.
I NEVER left my son or my dogs unsupervised. As a paramedic and a firefighter, I know how unbelievably quickly quality of life can change. A split second is all it take to change lives forever. Maybe that is why I am paranoid and rather obsessive about supervision of dogs and children in my family.
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