Feeding - Page 4

Sunny, thanks for the compliment. But it is not my secret, it is Joe's. He does not tell me, either, lol. Chris

I read the results of some research into causes of bloat when browsing another forum recently. The research indicates the following, Causes of Bloat in dogs, new research #221270 - 10/25/04 06:04 PM Edit Reply Quote Veterinary Economics magazine GDV in dogs. The first thing was of course that large dogs are more suseptible to it, but also that THIN dogs are more likely to get GDV. Second- that wetting dry kibble INCREASED the chance by double digits percent Third- that adding canned food or human food to dry kibble DECREASED the chance by 58% Fourth- that raising the pets dish INCREASED the chance of GDV Fifth- that dogs that ate larger sized kibble had a LOWER chance of GDV Vets agreed that the common theme was that slowing a dog down when they ate seemed to lessen the chance of GDV. Hence thats why adding canned or human food helped, the dogs ate slower. The article also stated things that i hope are well known, that strenuos excersise 1 hour before and 2 hours after eating are common causes of a GDV, and it also stated that water should not be restricted while the pet is eating The full thread is available at http://www.germanshepherds.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB4&Number=223197&Forum=&Words=Bloat&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Main=221270&Search=true&where=sub&Name=&daterange=1&newerval=1&newertype=y&olderval=&oldertype=&bodyprev=#Post223197 or http://www.germanshepherds.com/ubbthreads/dosearch.php and scroll to Causes of Bloat in dogs New Research. John.

I haven't read all the posts on this thread, so if this has already been addressed, I apologize. For some reason this screen is larger than my laptop will accomodate and half is off each end. Make sense? Anyway, don't all GSD's get loose stools the minute they have a change in their diet? Both of mine have. Have any of you tried Eagle Pack, either the holistic blend or fish and oatmeal with the addition of raw? This kibble is formulated to include 20% raw or canned if you're squimish about feeding raw. I've also heard that raw is great for GSD's with IBS and EPI, does anyone agree with that? The latest I've read on torsion is what the poster said about not soaking food. Seems that changes every year. One year do it, next year don't. Frankly, I've come to the conclusion that a tendency for a dog to torse is in the genes. I've already mentioned the website, Heaven's Gate, that lists the causes of death for GSD's and the owner tells me the stats have proven to her beyond a doubt that it definitely runs in families. You can take a look for yourself, but bear in mind that not all of her information is listed there, some have been harassed by the breeders and have asked for their info to be removed.

Cheers Sunny, Sincere apology for repeatedly saying turkey when I meant other solid fats altogether - mental block - didn't even make sense because turkey is fairly lean anyhow! You know, for reasons inexplicable, the topic brought back all sorts of memories of my mother's approach. Stuff that I used to scoff at as 'old wives tales', I've later seen verified on scientific basis! And I remember asking her all those years ago why she took trouble to remove solid fats from bones etc and telling me 'it's simply very bad for them'. I also remember some vet on the radio not long ago - I hardly listened as I didn't think it newsworthy - stating it was the result some random, inexplicable 'blunder' of nature. I really didn't think I was being in any way controversial. Please accept that it is something that needs to be watched. It's far too easy to say with ham leftovers for instance: Oh, don't waste it by chucking it into garbage, give it to the dogs, they'll love it! The dogs the family had then - never more than two at the time - were fed all sorts of human food concoctions prepared by my mother, and hardly had a sick day in their lives, and barely ever saw a vet. I think one problem these days is not that of inadequate diet or nutrition but the reverse! Nowadays, how often don't you see pups of all ages that are grossly overweight and too 'chubby'? The needs of a mature Shepherd are actually quite modest. That is why I think that the constant obsession with the latest and best extruded formulations is quite absurd! I think there was even a post a while back of an owner in India asking how he could obtain some special brand in the US! And that is why I think soaking food is really unnecessary - but that's only my opinion. (Still like someone to tell me about manufacturers'opinion/advice). As far as preventing bloat - dream on, boyo! Does post above suggest it actually increases the changes of bloat: I don't have much faith in that 'research' (what, funded by the kibble manufacturers, perhaps? But, my instincts tell me that it may well be so!) The research also suggests use of canned 'junk': give me a break! As I've said, the cattle industry has done endless research, and struggled with same problem forever, and still, as far as I know, haven't come up with any conclusive answers. By slowly killing an animal with kindness, I mean that no animal in captivity should be allowed to be overweight, and pampered with excess food. When a dog stretches there nothing wrong with seeing the ribs stand out. As I said, I also add my own concoction to the dry food, and even include garlic against worms (even though I'm not that convinced it makes any real difference!). They love it and I've have never had any problem with stomach complaints or indications toward bloat. Never allow them to over-exert before or after feeding. It must satisfy them for, if I tried to feed them again in the morning they'd think I was nuts! Sorry if I caused you any concern with turkey business! Be Good

Cheers Blitz, How are things? I'm having same problem - driving me insane - all over the place! You know what I think? That there is a whole range of random factors causing bloat: genetics may well be one of the contributing factors, but personally I'd be taking any research here with a grain of salt. Bloat isn't anything new - it's affected animal husbandry forever. If it were as simple as certain bloodlines, I think this would have been cottoned onto centuries ago. Cattlemen would have promptly removed faulty lines quick smart! But,I'm merely guessing and stabbing in the dark, and what's that worth! Got to get off this Board! Taking up too much time! Too addictive! Things to do! Regards.

Hi Patrishap, The statistics showed that specific GSD's that had themselves torsed, some dying, some surviving to torse another day, seemed to produce a higher percentage of offspring that also torsed, some at at a very young age. Now these were for the most part AKC lines and we all know they are not normal GSD's, so those stats could be slanted toward the malformed and dull witted masses amoung us LOLOL. The only reason for the stats reflecting mostly AKC lines is that those owners are the ones who responded to the questionaire. Anyone can submit their dogs' information. I have seen some info on some German bred dogs too. In the end, I think you are correct, there is really no one thing that causes torsion.

Blitz, Just adore your first conclusion! Interesting bit about younger animals. Hope you're well.

i also use carrots in my dogs food but i blend the carrots until they are a mush ...carrots can enhance the color of a dogs coat,if the carrots are not blended they would pass through the dogs system therefore not being utilized.

Yeh, Jade, good idea, but what? Uncooked?

Hi DH, All we need here is your input - not that long ago I remember a very useful post on pup nutrition.