Feeding - Page 2

Well I used to wet my kibble but now just make sure the dogs always have fresh water available. Part of my post will include raw food as I feed that as well as kibble. I do like to ad to my kibble kind of like what Sunny talked about. She coats her kibble with some type of broth if I read right (which is what the dog food comps do, just with Chicken fat to hold it all together). the days I feed Kibble I sometimes will ad: A. Fish, 2 whole eggs, spinach blended into liquid. B. Or I will just ad some Frozen Bil-Jac C. Or I will just ad an egg Again they always have fresh water available (but not in the food). The days I feed raw I feed whatever was on sale or cheap at the store that week. I just came back from the food store. Its a Mexican food store and I get stuff I never knew was sold for food!!! :-) I bought: Chicken Backs: .59 per Pound Chicken Quarters .29 per pound Chicken Necks .59 per pound High Quality Kibble: Over 1.00 per pound and they will cut my cow leg down the middle (split in half) which is awesome for the dogs, they work them for hours and hours. I do feed a high quality kibble, but there is no way around the fact raw is the real (Human Grade) food. You and I hope there are good products (Human Grade) in the kibble. Like I said we can all hope or pretend it is the same good chicken we buy from the store!!!! :-)

Thanks Makosh and Maxll, I started to soak the food after many Germans told me to do so, because it is not good for the stomach ligaments to have hard kibble in their stomach. It takes hours to digest, while supposedly, soaked food is more easily digested. Not my opinion, that is hearsay form different Germans. Nutrients do get lost in water, or should I say used prematurely. It is a chemical process. If you have ever fed Prozyme supplement (we have), it will say so on the instructions. In nutrition books (for human consumption), they warn that excess soaking of vegetables in water (also of course, heating) will cause vitamins to be killed. A lot of minerals and vitamins to be absorbed, need water (or stomach fluids). And no, if I remember from my school days, once appropriate molecules combine, the chemical process is finished and cann't get absorbed anymore. That is the reason, you should buy quality vitamins, not cheap ones. But to get back to the subject: Everybody agrees that soaking food is an old wive's tale and should not be done? Chris

geeze, this is a lot of stuff to read - but here's my 2 cents worth -- YES, SILBERSEE - YOU DO NEED TO SOAK YOUR KIBBLE - IF YOU INDEED HAVE TO FEED AN EXTRUDED FOOD, because it is better to have it EXPAND OUTSIDE the dog rather than inside -- and there is lots of "proof" that BOAT is carried through certain bloodlines. We can document children and grandchildren of certain males, for example, that never reach their 5th birthday. The other theory is that if you can keep your GSD from bloating until it is if 5 years old it is not likely to bloat after that point -- but.. that is only a theory -- And another highly suspected cause is using foods that FERMENT (in the stomach and make gasses an expand -- SOY, CORN, RICE, BEETS, BARLEY, ETC., ETC., ETC. -- LOTS OF DIE-HARDS and those that know they carry boat factors are deathly afraid of these foods in their kibble - and do keep their dogs crated for hours and hours after they eat and I know one person that refuses to allow her dog water -- only allowd to lick at a block of ice !!! The things people do !!! So soak the food - WARM water hastens the expansion process -- and don't let the dog tell you he doesn't like it wet -- that's tough! At least if you ever have a problem, God forbid, you did the best you could -- Some people also have a maximum quantity of no more than 2 cups (dry) before the water is adeede - at any meal - so as not to make matters worse with just too darn much food in the stomach.

Cheers Silbersee, Love the 'luft and liebe' bit. Lucht? My German is pathetic! Bulk dry foods or kibble are generally well well-balanced, highly nutritional foods - far superior than the canned stuff (much used here by pet owners)- others comment on white teeth of my animals compared to theirs - I tell them to lay off the canned rubbish! On the other hand, an 85-year old old-timer not far from here tells me a Shepherd can quite happily live for weeks on bowl of water with honey - haven't tried that yet! Bloat? The cattle industry have studied the problem forever - I believe they have yet to come up with a conclusive answer, but I may be wrong! Hodie mentions not feeding before or after exercise - I observe that religeously as well. I don't think anyone has shown conclusive genetic or anatomy link. In the feedlot industry soaking food (and 'cracking' of oats or whatever) is quite common, but I think it has little to do with nutrition as such - the idea is to slow the passage of the food so that it has better opportunity to be absorbed. Shepherds are notorious for stomach problems - and for throwing up to compensate? Old-timer Jack mentioned earlier therefore believes in rice, and now so do I. I also favour diversity. So, I mildly cook vegetables, mix it up with cooked rice and chopped liver and bit of mince. Keep it in fridge, and mix (after slightly warming) with dry food just before feeding - they love it and thrive on it - what more is there to say? Only feed mature critters once a day; no soaking - can't really see the point, despite the above. Too many bones and they lose interest in them, and insist on burying them instead. Mine love the odd pig trotter. Oh yes, dogs in general, quite inexplicably so and through an evolutionary accident, can't handle animal fat. Never feed left over turkey with fat attached - consequence can be catastrophic. Hodie and Silbersee would know this anyway. Otherwise I sometimes wonder if not too much is made of this feeding business, They'll eat if they're hungry! Animals should never be overfed or overweight -it's a slow killer - better if they're still looking for bit more after feeding. Lady asked me to look after her Spaniels a while back, and 'here's what we feed', she said. She opened large cupboard - countless number of super-sized cans of rubbish! Hi Sweet Sunshine: wondered where you were!

Cheers Pineridge, Just read your comments. Apologies, but really can't agree with most of it. Perhaps animals you mentioned should be kept permanently in intensive care at some clinic - rather than parading as rough and tumble working animals? Or quickly desexed or disposed off elswhere? This business of expanding outside stomach and 'proof' to do with certain lines etc - I'm sorry, but I don't buy it! As I asked Charlie while back: What happened to the animal that swims the river one moment, drops off her litter, and the next hurries off to round up those dumb sheep? Regards.

I know someone who has had two dogs bloat this year, both were well over 5 years, one bloated in his crate.

just wish to add that all factors play a role --- what quality meats / meat meal or byproducts etc. , with what ingrediamts , , how prepared commercially and /or at home and ingredients , bioavailability and digestability of the food , there is no one factor -- but i think more importantly is how is trhe food eaten ?? i see some dogs fe once daily .. watered down and not and they inhale that food , swallow and gulp --- i tnik this is a contributing facxter ... most of my dogs .. not all it depends sometimes on their training routine .. but most can eat when they wish .. they never seem to overeat or inhale their food .. they don't eat with frantic habits -- they never feel they have to fill up their bellies like it is thier last meal -- personally i think this diminishes the incidence or chance of bloat and digestive problems.

Hi Peter, still here. Can you advise about the animal fat thing and being catastrophic? Hey Alpha, very good point. Sunny

Good to have you here again, dear lady. What I mean Sunshine is that from their wayback beginnings - tamed wolf pups and as scavengers - you'd expect that evolution would have readily provided dogs with ability to deal with animal fats - in actual fact they can't - this is what I mean by 'accident of evolution'! I'm not talking so much about milk or butter fat, or what have you, but fat attached to meats and bones (I always cut it off) - I even worry about the fatty skin attached to beforementioned pig trotters. I particularly mentioned turkey because bloke up North here over a year ago fed left over fatty skins etc --- dog naturally had violent reaction, and moron didn't go to vet soon enough! It's all quite true: I'm sure actually quantity involved would play important part, of course, but ask you vet to verify next time you visit him. Missed you - regards.

Peter, does it make a difference if the fat is cooked or raw? What about drippings from roasted chicken? What about bacon grease (I read somewhere that bacon grease has a particular molecular value for coat like room temperature corn oil)? Perhaps you don't have an answer and I am not so sure about the vet either! Will do some research if I don't hear back from you. Sunny