Working is working and show is show - Page 4

My personal dog would not be suitable for any work. Yes he is a "working dog" but in the loosest sense of the word. I dont know if he would herd or not, but he has lack of stamina. I am happy with him though, not because he is what I think a GSD should be, but because he has been my loving friend for 5 years, since he was 8 weeks old. Hard to totally trash a good friend that I love. BUT, while he does do bitework, and he does protect my family, I still am never 100% convinced that if he absolutely HAD TOO protect them he would. I prefer to find a dog that can get stabbed 20 times and still continue to fight, even if he is half dead. I dont think you can get that in the show. By work, I mean Schutzhund, police work, sentry dog, durg dog, and the like. Herding is not on my list, but yes I know it is also a form of work. But broder collies and cattle dogs are more common for herding it seems. My wife is happy with what accidentally fell into with my GSD, he is the "Golden Lower End". Not the middle by any means. All of this is why I am going to buy a new male for "work" to include family gurad dog and maybe PSA or Schutzhund. I will never get rid of ol' couch potato, but I would feel better relying on a working breed. I think mixing the lines is a mistake and I have been consistent on that. Just because I love my show line boy, doesnt mean I would buy another one or a working show mix. But I appreciate your researching my posts to make your response. You can check my boy out if you want to research the lines, he is on this board, here is the link http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/380967.html

Flip did you know that the requirement for a SCHH title is waived in some venues if the dog has an HGH title? Do you know the reason for that? It's because the dogs are trained to protect the flock and the shepherd. Or better said those natural instincts are enhanced through training. A GSD herding dog can be pretty ferocious when protecting what is his whether flock or family. Like I said your definition of work is too narrow.

Or waived because someone slipped the judge a $100 bucks. My definition of work is exactly as it should be. Do not hide behind herding titles and pass them off as equal to Schutzhund, Narcotics detection, sentry and the like. Like I said, show lines are soft.

Be polite, flip. Don't turn this into a pissing contest. It doesn't have to be. I'm not hiding behind anything. Those are the written rules! NOT a matter of one person slipping money to a judge. A narcotics detection dog is a working dog but a herding dog isn't??? You are doing YOURSELF a disservice by closing your mind like that. Familiarize yourself with the training and the testing a GSD must go through to earn his HGH and the tell me it's not a working title- not before.

I am not trying to be impolite. It is so hard to impart inflection on type. I respect your opinions and always find your posts fair and well researched. I do not know enough about herding, that is true. I will see what I can find on the subject. Heck maybe ol' couch potato himself would be good at it. He seems to all of a sudden show a little life when "herding" the neighborhood kids on their bikes. Please do not take offense, none intended. Maybe I need to go to bed....

"I prefer to find a dog that can get stabbed 20 times and still continue to fight, even if he is half dead." I think ALL dog have "fight vs. flight" related to their self preservation instinct. If the dog has no option but to fight, they will (for example, being backed into a corner). If they are seriously, I mean seriously, losing the fight, do you think they would hang around if they have the option to stay alive (by retreating)? Just curious.

OldNewGuy, you're right. Herding titles are much more difficult to achieve than Narcotics Certification. It may be one of the harder titles to achieve.

Hey, Flip, no worries. BTW if you're going to do some research be sure to look into the HGH type herding, NOT the AKC type. There are several methods/styles. I'm not familiar with the rest, but I do know that they are not the same. Ol' couch-potato is a good looking pup. Maybe he's too smart. I had a female like that once. She had to have a legitimate reason to get excited. Didn't like sports. She was family-protection trained. After she got to know the handler she played at biting the sleeve. One day I had a new handler try to come through a window at the house and I thought she was going to eat him.

Spook, I think it takes a really special dog to get an HGH. I would be willing to bet many sport/schutzhund dogs wouldn't be able to do it. The dog must really be intelligent and be able to discriminate when and how much force is necessary and be under complete self control at all times while the shepherd may be a very long distance away. He retains that same intelligence and determination when it comes to applying force to a threat. I had the pleasure/privilege of seeing this in Germany when I was stationed there. It's a beautiful thing to watch.

OldNew Thanks for the compliment on ol' couch potato. I have seen AKC herding, thanks for the heads up as I was sure to go down that road. I will let you know how it goes. Laporte, I am not implying that a dog that is stabbed 20 times would fight (it would be dead), it was an exaggeration (sp?) for effect. My point is that working lines in general seem to have a higher pain tolerance. My show male that we have been talking about will do serious bitework, he does not do well on the Sch field though because our local helper has no idea how to use aggression and if it isnt real, my dog knows it. BUT, he also strikes me as the kind that would possibly be shrugged off by a seriously vicious attacker. I dont know, I hope I never am in a situation where I find out. My point was that I have owned working dogs with what seemed like a much higher pain tolerance and therefore, in my mind, would stay in the fight longer. What do I know, I have never had a real situation for my dog to react to, and all the "training" he does fine. I guess you train your dog as real as you can, expose him to prerssure, and threat as much as you can, and hope that if he/she ever has to fight, they will.