Pancreatic Insufficiency - Page 2

I have a female who was diagnosed with EPI at 14 months old. She will be 8 in August. The Pancreatic Enzyme Powder is costly. It depends on what size. I buy the 8 oz size and it costs about $87.00 from the Vet. I usually buy it every 5 weeks or so. I don't want to get gross, but people have forgotten to mention is, when there is a bowel movement, it is nasty looking!! PLUS...the smell itself will knock the socks right off your feet! Not a pretty site! Dawn Bonome

For those of you buying enzyme replacements, at least in the U. S., there is one available with which I have had good luck with my dogs in the rescue program. It is relatively cheap. It is called Prozyme. If someone wants to know more about how to get it, it can be bought on-line. No American vet should be charging large sums of money as it is less than about $43.00 for the very large bottle. A smaller container is less than $22.00. There are several other products and basically, they are all the same. Enzymes like this can also be purchased from health food stores in the U. S. if one knows what to look for. I suppose it is possible that sometimes a dog would do better on one brand name than another, but I have always used the product mentioned above with good results. I have had very good luck with LOW FAT foods, such as Royal Canin Maxi Light 27 which still provides a good amount of protein. This is supplemented with the enzyme powder. By experiementation I have arrived at a suitable dose for each dog. Serious cases usually require at least one TEASPOON per dry measure cup of food, but for some dogs, that would be too high. Also, many dogs seem not to like the taste of the powder, but there are a variety of methods to disguise the taste. I also supplement their diet with yogurt, low fat cottage cheese, etc. As Louise pointed out, there is often a second problem in these dogs which needs attention. Sometimes it is parasites, sometimes bacterial overgrowth. Only certain bacteria should be present in large numbers in the digestive tract. When it is not functioning correctly, other bacteria which should not, can and do thrive and that makes it difficult to make good headway in resolving the problem. In addition to the enzyme replacement, I also often give other medications. Since I am not a vet and have arrived at these therapies with and without vet assistance, I will simply say that if you have a dog who has EPI you may feel free to email me and I would be glad to share my ideas. Many of these dogs can be treated appropriately and live long lives despite the condition. Also Birdy is quite right that sometimes the condition is missed or does not get diagnosed until after the dog is bred. But, at least in my experience, there are clues early on that something is amiss. The bottom line is that if one does not get firm, formed stools from a dog consistently, but rather light colored, foul smelling cow patty like piles, this is a clue. In my experience often vets miss the condition, but, if the stools improve on enzyme replacement and low fat diets, this too says a lot about a sub-clinical case being present.

dogs with EPI shouldn't be bred; they should be selected out of the gene pool; why worry about pancreatic enzyme supplements and headaches... eliminate the problem from the root; spay the dog if you're attached to him/her. before getting a dog, check on the parents; a german shepherd pup should have insatiable appetite; check for genetic diseases in the ancestors. several dog food brands wouldn't have to worry about selecting for specific, costly ingredients to fit the needs of genetic misfits; it amuses me to read about the "delicate g.i. system of the german shepherd dog"... whatever.. a gsd should be able to digest anything; feed them raw, guts, tripe, bones... raw veggies... natural... or good kibble in its defect; there shouldn't be any "pancreatic insufficiency problems" i sympathize with the problem but don't condone it, kosta

Kosta, No one on this post has said they approve of breeding dogs with this problem. Most of us see no need to state the obvious! Genetic misfits....I may be one of those myself! I promise not to breed, only please do not put me down.

Hodie, Thanks for post about Prozyme. I could not remember that name. Prozyme worked for my male for the first two years and then it stopped working. The Viokase-V was offered by the vet and this is working great. The prozyme should be tried first since it is much less expensive. I did get a better price buying Viokase online.

Melanie, Thanks so much for bringing this up, and thanks to everyone else for the input. I have a dog here that is suspect and had planned to do bloodwork in the near future. After reading this I realized that she has all the symtems except for the appetite, which seems to come and go. But I think that's because she is occatioanally too hyper to stop and eat. I had her x-rayed a couple of weeks ago suspecting an obstuction. I had started giving her Prozyme and am now waiting for it to get out of her system to do the tests for EPI. Note: They need to be off enzymes for about a week in order to test. Also, if anyone has trouble finding Prozyme in the US I carry it in my bird store and shipping is no problem. Thanks again, Sheri

There are no genetic markers to test a dog for being a carrier or for having subclinical EPI status. The typical tests (TLI and serum cobalamin and folate) for EPI do not provide a screening device to determine if otherwise "normal" appearing dogs are candidates for inclusion in the gene pool. Therefore, in the absense of genetic markers and predictive GI function screening tests, there is generally no way to "pre-select" dogs for exclusion as vivable breeding candidates. For the present, we have no available tests to suggest that we exclude dogs without obvious clinical and verifiable symptoms from our breeding programs. Hence, we cannot ruthlessly eliminate EPI anymore that we can eliminate usually non-health-threatening conditions such as blues, longcoats, HD, etc. from the GSD breed. To attempt to do so would be like throwing the baby out with the bath water. We can only avoid breeding dogs with clincally confirmed EPI. We cannot exclude all of their progeny conceived before the identification for positive parental EPI status. Louise

I am glad this info has helped others. The pup in quesiton hasn't gotten the test results back yet so we are keeping our fingers crossed. I would also like someone to describe the stool better. I've heard it is mucusy (clear snot looking substance) with loose stool. This pup has loose stool (mushy) but no mucus. She also is a very picky eater and always has been. She's on the thin side but her hip points are not showing. She recently lost about two pounds (7mos old) and has been rather lethargic so the owners had her tested for PI on monday but they won't get the results till next week. The reason I asked the original question is the owner of the sire is pointing her finger at the owner of the dam, which I thought was unfair if both needed to be carriers. Neither parent have PI and the pup has already been spayed. Thanks to everyone, Melanie

Also the vet has her on Eukanuba low-residue food. If she has to keep her on it her owner wants to know if there's anywhere else to get it. She says it costs $17 for a small bag at her vet. If not, I will suggest the other foods mentioned here, however with her digestion problems I'd hate to switch her food again. Prior to the vet switching her she was on Royal Canine GSD 24. Thanks, Melanie

S Rogers, I apologize about my comments; about us humans being genetic misfits, well that's another topic... so I'm not really interested to know whether you're a misfit or not, and your breeding practices... :) i was restricting myself to dogs, and them not being allowed to be bred; i read the story of your dog; sorry i missed it the first time; I sympathize with your problem; i've had dogs with health problems that i attribute to genetics; i'm a little sensitive on the issue; it all goes back to poor breeding practices and lack of consciousness of breeders. I guess going to the original problem, most vets would go ahead and follow a trial an error approach with a dog with questionable EPI, with change of diets, enzymatic supplements... i'm glad van patten worked for you; i tried it sometime with my dogs some years ago, but it was too expensive; i go all natural now; i've been fortunate not to ever had digestive problems with my dogs kosta