Just another Sport Dog - Page 29

Centurion, I m not talking about pinching with the inscisors, but am talking about gripping up to the carnassials is plenty deep enough to make a killing bite on the gut of an ungulate or the throat of a rival dog. Would I want a shallow bite, that is tentative at best ? Heck no ! I would not want that any more than I'd want a dog that is afraid of going down open stairs or fearful of any hoofed livestock.
However, I will not make the mistake again of judging a dog superior because it has a genetic full grip.
Dogs are more complex, IMO, than assuming any dog with full genetic bite = a superior dog

about sums it up joan,and than there are lots of dogs that have a full grip on sleeve or suit, but wont bite anything else,

Centurian do you train French ring in the US ?, how many french ring clubs are in the US ?
have seen some quality malinois from the French ring in Belgium and French

BM - I sent a message to you answering your question .

Bw: 'Grip in a green dog, will tell you everything you need to know about the dog’s genetic ability and also how they can deal with pressure. '

Me: And yet, a seasoned dog can create the illusion of self confidence and power, when the opposite might be true.

Bw: '…but if you present me an older dog, one that is mature, and I need to work to develop a full grip, especially in the presence of light pressure…there’s no hiding what that dog is.'

Me: so training is fruitless ? If no points can be made with training, then why train?

 

Here's a dog with zero training, first time ever on back tie, first time ever presented a sleeve....the decoy keeps his distance:-) 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/an57vz24ieq52yl/VIDEO0267_01.mp4?dl=0

 

BW, why do you equate pointing out the different needs or priorities of something different than sport as ragging on sport? Or why can you not understand that sport is fine in its world, but it does NOT set the bar for other uses of the GS. I don't see experienced people ragging on GS in sport, rather than pointing out that the high sport bar does not seamlessly transfer to say LE work anymore. Many of us understand and value sport,( been there done that), and there are superior dogs and training in sport as well as in LE. But, they are different for most part these days, and that doesn't " rag" on either. There are fair, good, great LE dogs as well as same in sport dogs. (Just like soccer and NFL are both football, but are vastly different). Occasionally, you have individuals that can excel in both sport and LE, but more and more the sport dogs have strong sport traits and LE dogs have strong LE traits. They both overlap as good working dogs, but if I was in sport club today looking to compete I would look for my dog in different places than I do now.( and you know I have connections and friends in the top sport world)
So, let's talk pros and cons about dogs and training without reading into it ulterior motive of dislike one or the other besides what you are acquiring the dog for....fair enough?

amen

Joann my last comment wasn't directed to you personally - I think your GS is super and those that wrote to you that dog has great potential and most likely for police work are correct.
.. in general I was trying to communicate to novices and readers that a full bite is very beneficial . The story that I shared , about the police dog that bit me ... I refrained from writing this in the post but , a BIG BUT , if I had my knife in my pocket I could have killed that dog because the bite was so poor and shallow , I didn't even know I got bit initially ! If he attacked me again it could have been his last attack ever . That lousey bite, if I were a felon ,would have given me enough time ..For those that do PP , IMOp , ' the bite' is something to think about and pay attention to .
Yes Jo a full grip is not the only factor when assessing a dog. I agree with you 100% - you are absolutely correct on that . But , with all factors being even .. I can't say for anyone els- we all have to decide for ourselves .. .. when I want a dog for protection sport or for real life , when it comes to a dog biting in the front of it's mouth and one that will fill his whole mouth I persoanlly will take the dog that chomps full and hard. others that prefer and think different - I respect that ... thank you all for your posts...

I can't respond to any of you as I'll be warned, I'm sorry. The rules of this forum are what they are. I'm not special enough to consistently break them without repercussions.

 

You win Joan...unfortunately I'm not allowed to respond to you as you'll freak out and somehow I'll get blamed for it. Your dog is amazing. He's the greatest thing I've ever seen. I've never seen any dog do anything for the first time as much as he has. It's quite amazing to watch a dog do so many things just once in it's life and constantly have a camera on to record it. Keep going with what you're doing, it's clear that everything your dogs touch turns to gold and is the most amazing thing ever done for the first time. I can only hope that one day I have a dog that can do so many things so spectacularly just once in it's life.

 

Keep the status quo guys. Blow smoke up each others skirts and whatever else. I'm not here to do that. Your dogs are all super. 

^^^ ^^^