Science vs. Religion - Page 22

Imagine that.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/jesus-christ-died-cross-scholar/story?id=11066130

Right. That's why you study in greek and hebrew. I believe the Jehovah's Witnesses have been saying this for some time. Just don't tell the Catholics, they have enough problems right now.

Ggturner - there is no doubt, that to function corporately, whether it be in business, family, friends, or faith, a common language is required. In the case if faith, that "language" yields "religion". As fallible human beings, we inevitably make a royal mess out of this. I live in a county with only 18,000 people, and over 150 churches. Given the fact that only a fraction of those people are Christians, you can easily see the effects of that fallibility. One if the inherent problems with these denominations, or belief systems, is that people natural start to follow other people, and try to find their place in the "system". In Christian terms, buying into religion comes very cheap these days. It's easy to make a profession, emulate behavior, and then be validated by the group, all with the best of intentions. By and large, I see that people show up desperate, knowing there is something missing. If these people end up making some kind of profession, it has proven to be the exception to the rule that they actually GROW in their faith, beyond suckling milk. If your fortunate, they might show up every Sunday and warm the pew. They are conditioned to believe their spiritual condition is responsibility of the leadership. You end up with churches full if babies, who show up to a building, thinking some other human being somehow has the ability to walk FOR them. Christianity is 24/7, not an hour on Sun and Wed. Ideally, people would spend the rest of the week seeking, and bring with them the overflow of grace and mercy with them to church. Religion allows "chistians" a safe, cozy place to shed guilt, and hide from the truth. This can be true of any denomination. The truth is, there isn't going to be any "reformed theology" in heaven; it's an idea. Not Calvin, nor Wesley, nor Arminius, nor Smith, or any other "guy" and his ideas matter. It won't matter how well you exemplify your "system". If you call yourself a Christian, your are calling yourself a follower of Christ. If you are a follower of Christ, you will do the things he did, and walk as he walked. You will continue to grow. You will drink the cup, and as Paul writes be baptized into his death. The one teaching of Jesus that is recorded in the gospels more than any other (six times in four gospels) is that if you want to follow me, you must first deny yourself, and then pick up your cross.

To specifically address "TULIP": There was never any doubt in my mind, that you would agree with the last statements I made which you quoted; that mail had been delivered with your first post. I will say this, about that - the entire bible is predicated on choice. God chose to create man, Adam and Eve chose evil, Jesus chose to sacrifice himself. He said of his life, that he lay it down FREELY. Without choice, there is no love. I chose Jesus a long time ago, and I choose God's will every day. I never stop having that choice. It has to be that way as love requires choice. God desires a relationship with his people, not a bunch of robots running around. I don't know a whole lot, but what I know, I know, and it's cost a lot. The sacrifices along the way have been just that, sacrifices. Nothing has happened that I did not ask for. I said I would go, I said I wanted more, and I got it. Predestination does nit eliminate choice, it just means God, who is not bound by time, already knows your choice.

Good posts Carlin.

Interesting article GSDadmin.

Intelligent Faith Comes from Above

A follower of Jesus Christ believes that God exists and Scripture is valid. When one accepts by faith the gift of grace through faith and reasoning, the mind is transformed to a different world view with an understanding of the effects of sin’s nature on all of mankind. We were once blinded because of our own sin and separated by the carnal nature that is in us. No one can truly understand or even be capable of understanding the truth of Jesus Christ until He draws you to Himself.

A follower of Jesus Christ cannot provide proof of God's existence, only God can prove Himself to that person. From that point, there is a choice to accept the grace of God through Jesus Christ, which brings redemption and a transformed mindset. Until this miracle happens, the authority of Scripture will be irrelevant and foolish to the skeptic, or unbeliever. Even so, there is still hope, and one should not cut off dialogue or communication, but in faith allow God to work His love through us to the lost.

The Scriptural evidence of faith and grace also strengthen those who walk in and walk it out in their lives by being an example of encouragement to their brothers and sisters in Christ, as well as to the unbeliever. The skeptic will often challenge the subjectivity of the follower of Christ’s faith and want evidence by putting the “burden of proof” on the believer. Since Jesus Christ addressed the skeptics, they also need to hear from us via the Holy Spirit something that is reasonable, intelligible, and tries to answer sincere questions that are honest and truthful in order to bring about faith.

 

When one strays too far one way in their subjective or evidential approach, it confines to one end of the spectrum, instead of an essential balance of both. For a skeptic, or unbeliever to receive real truth, evangelism must be balanced in a way to allow the Holy Spirit to work through the believer by appealing and offering evidence and proof. This will approve the reliability of the Good News of Jesus Christ and His Word. It can be difficult for faith to emerge and change someone’s reality through the religious coercion of “blind faith,” which the “turn or burn” mentality often dictates. In contrast, a sincere testimony is more constructive, which affirms the faith of the followers of Christ, and also is a catalyst to increasing faith in those who do not believe.

A presupposition that God exists can be, and often countered with the opposite response,“God doesn't exist," leaving a stalemate which the skeptic states, “Just because you can make a claim, does not make it true.” Through logic and reasoning, the search for truth can become a heated debate. This, in essence, can be a good thing; dialogue and communication can open the doors for conversation with an opportunity to break ground and add seeds of faith. It is only through the comparing and contrasting of each another, that there can be a clearer understanding where the other is coming from. From there, the Holy Spirit can help us make the best valid claim, even within the limitations our finite knowledge. In our weakness, He is strong, which is the essence of faith in the Gospel by having total dependency on Jesus Christ.

In hindsight, a follower of Jesus Christ has overcome a hurdle to receive the free gift of grace; in foresight, there is something available from Jesus Christ for the skeptic or unbeliever to hurdle them over their obstacles to the knowledge of truth.

As followers of Christ, there are some actions that can appropriately spread the Good News. Firstly, we can clear the way for the message of Christ by helping those overcome their own obstacles of emotion and intellect with supportive or exhortative communication of truth in a loving and respectful way.

 

But sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence

1 Peter 3:15

I felt the necessity to write to you appealing that you contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all handed down to the saints.

Jude 1:3

Having a good foundation of the truth paves the way to exposing error, heresy, and the fraudulent nature of Satan that tries to undermine the authenticity and truth of faith by distracting us from a true genuine relationship with Jesus Christ.

As followers of Jesus Christ, we need to defend the truth, but also challenge the claims of opposing views.

Can we demand someone to accept Jesus Christ before any dialogue or communication has taken place with them?
 

Doubting Thomas rejected that Jesus Christ had risen unless he had the evidence or proof that he needed. Jesus Christ responded to his obstacle, and the fruit was, “My Lord and my God!” The Bible attests historically to eye-witness accounts of the audience of that day who accepted Jesus Christ. God knows each and every one of the obstacles that we need to overcome concerning our doubts about Him. Jesus Christ can use His followers as instruments in this way via the Holy Spirit to the unreached.

One of the most important keys to salvation is spreading the knowledge and truth of Jesus Christ.

How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher? How will they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, “HOW BEAUTIFUL ARE THE FEET OF THOSE WHO BRING GOOD NEWS OF GOOD THINGS!” However, they did not all heed the good news; for Isaiah says, “LORD, WHO HAS BELIEVED OUR REPORT?” So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

Romans 10:14-17
An informed decision about Jesus Christ is a good decision. Argument and coercion rely on the power of man to advocate “blind faith,” but intelligent faith and reason from the Holy Spirit leaves no doubt, produces good fruit, and expands His kingdom.
http://planksandnails.hubpages.com/hub/Intelligent-Faith

Definitely some valid points. One of the challenges today ia the face of "christianity"today in the media. Televangelists with private jets living in multi million dollar homes, constantly pressing for money, promising property. As far as I'm concerned, any given TBN broadcast is no different than an hour long infomercial, full of empty promises. Countless people have bought in, expecting the "product" as advertised, only to end up discouraged and confused. Others recognize the sham for what it is, and want no part of it; I don't blame them. Until it costs you something, "christianity" will continue to be peddled as the truth, while the truth of biblical Christianity becomes harder and harder to find.

Hummm I might have missed it reading, but I doubt it .. soooo about Science. Ha Ha

As Augustine observed many many Moons ago, humans go and wonder at the height of mountains, the vast compass of the Oceans, the circular motion of the Stars, but pass by themselves without wondering. LMAO  Or something like that.

Seriously, coming right down to it, the most incredible creation in the universe is you and of course me. (lol) Our fantastic senses and strengths, ingenious defense systems and last but not lease mental capabilities so complex and vast most absolutely will never use them to the fullest. 

In Science the human body is a structural masterpiece highly endowed and organized. It is evident the human body is the result of purposeful design and not some evolutionist idea of ions of time and blind chance.

Times have changed, theories have advanced along with technology as well as Physics, Medicine, Biology, Astronomy, Oceanography and Archaeology. The intellectual, book learned and studious people also changed conscience and consciousness.

Does any living creature know how to store coded information in a chemical format like the Human DNA molecule ?

Ya, that's the fly in the ointment with the whole evolution theory now isn't it ?

Thank God some of us have brains.  LMAO

Ohh wait, maybe I should ask a Chimpanzee.

Good thread here Keith. But where's all the Science folk ? lol

I think when this is decoded out, religion (christianity) will be forever changed



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12888421