Bad Week for WDA - Page 3

Keith,

That is a good question and I do not know the answer.  The arrangement with the AKC involves the parent breed clubs here in the US.  There is only one breed club for the German Shepherd in the US and that is the GSDCA.  Currently there is no relationship between the USCA and GSDCA other than they are both WUSV members.

Something that I think should be brought up and discussed with USCA and GSDCA leadership.

@Richard Medlen, I agree, it would be something a foriegn judge should be concerned about.  But, if the WDA became a member of another FCI recognized club and uses judges certified for both FCI and SV/WUSV events, there is wiggle room in the rules, protecting the judges, as currently written.  In fact, by joining SV2000 and the IRO, the WDA can also file to have thier IPO and IRO titles recognized by the AKC as well (in a manner similar to Barnhunt and Dock Diving).  The WDA would also not need to join the AWDF either because RSV2000 is a VDH member and the IRO has very solid agreement with FCI (meaning USCA and DVG must accept IRO scorebooks).

Also something else I noticed on the current 2015 version of the AKC recogonized working titles pdf, is the absence of the HGH and the FH3 titles that were there previously.

@Keith Grossman, Its my understanding that the dogs owner has to be a member of the particular breed club at the time they added the titles to the akc pedigree. The rules say nothing about which specific scorebooks or judges stamps will be accepted, especially considering that the GSDCA has only recently started issuing scorebooks and holding trials.  The AKC originally said working titles will be recognized as far back as 1991, so if that clause still stands they will have to accept titles originally recorded on SV pink papers and WDA scorebooks. Which makes me further believe submitals are tied to breed club membership of the individual person and not just the dogs scorebook.  Also, if someone did have a problem all they would need to do is join the GSDCA and then transfer the existing scorebook over, then submiting the new transferred scorebook to the AKC.  Think about it, the AKC says they will accept working titles for dogs with PAL numbers and as far as I understand dogs with PAL numbers are noted as mixed breed by all organizations issuing scorebooks now, except AHBA.  So, how would the title recording process work if it were tied solely to the dogs scorebook and not also to individual membership?

@cmandela, this also brings up an interesting twist to the USCA dual club membership ban. Basically, if a USCA member wants to record any working titles to thier dogs AKC pedigrees, they will have to resign from USCA, then join the GSDCA and transfer thier scorebooks over. Then when the titles are recorded by the AKC, reisgn from the GSDCA and re-apply to USCA.

momosgarage:

You pose so many hypotheticals a linguist couldn't keep up with you. Forgive my ignorane but I have never heard of the IRO and the AWDF can not accept another German Shepherd Dog Club. The RSV2000, in my opinion, is already overcrowed with narcissism and they are unlikely to accept any power grabs or challenges from the outside.  The DVG has been around forever and as from my perspective has not made any tremedous inroads. The DVG is like the AWDF an all breed organization devoted strictly to the IPO Sport.

If you will look at the acceptable titles the AKC accepts and will list on pedigrees; the HGH and FH3 are not listed for any breed. Also,I don't believe the AD can be listed since it is not a degree but rather a prerequist for the Breed Survey.  The AD at one time could be cosidered as a degree for all breed other than GSDs.  Also the BH at one time could not be listed as a degree of GSDs for the same reason. Back in the day, only SchI 1-2 & 3, FH 1 &2, could be listed as degrees for GSDs. All the other sundry degrees that some claim were only considered to be stages earned in preparation for the real working dog degees.

 

 

 

 

 

 

"All the other sundry degrees that some claim were only considered to be stages earned in preparation for the real working dog degees."

Because that's what they are!  

@Richard Medlen, the AKC previously accepted the HGH when the WDA was listed and the FH3 was listed under the Doberman club. I was pointing out a CHANGE that occured recently, as of this year, sorry you failed to notice.

My points are not mere hypotheticals, they are questions framed around the existing rules and agreements as currently written.  It would behoove people like yourself to become familiar with the administrative rules, within the venues you are participating in, especially if you are in a leadership role.  Many IPO venue, parent ogranizations, signed these agreements years ago.  Again, I strongly suggest you and others of the same mindset, start familiarizing yourselves with them, especially since it is all available on the web now.  This stuff was VERY difficult to research 15+ years ago, but things have changed, so there is no room for excuses or ignorance anymore.

Current IRO members:

http://www.iro-dogs.org/en/iro-home/iro-members.html

The main issue for the WDA isn't about becoming a viable venue for trialing, certifying judges and training helpers, its about retaining the ability to get thier members to the WUSV nationals and the world championships.  As things stand now, that is definately something they are going to lose.  However, these are the only things at risk, IF, the WDA truly understands the full range of alternatives available to them as an organization.

IRO associated clubs can only get judges for RH trials.

Dual FCI/SV judges can only judge under their SV license if released by the SV. You can't get a release unless you're a WUSV member organization.

@CrashKerry,  thats good information, thanks for the clarification. This topic came up with my club, when we were trying to figure out a way to host a joint RH trial with the IRO.  We specified that the judges needed to be SV certified.  The response was that a dual certified FCI/SV judge could be provided and could use thier SV stamp for participants that needed it.  It was not explicitly stated that they needed permission from the SV.  However, I understand that just because they didn't put the burden on the club to ask for official permission, does not mean it was not required.

Don't forget the main advantage of the WDA joining IRO is that DVG, the SV and USCA will have to recognize the IRO scorebooks.  Thats something that I would imagine would be important to the general membership.  The only hang up would be if someone wanted to trial at a GSDCA event, but to date, I haven't seen any official rules publication or board meeting minutes that states they will not accept other scorebooks at thier trials.  Also, its my understanding that the AWDF must recognize all FCI scorebooks, even if they are not AWDF members.

As for how the WDA would mitigate the loss of WUSV membership, they would need multiple memberships and switching to RSV2000, for one of those memberships, would provide a way to still offer IPO, even if not under the SV/WUSV.  Also by partnering with a German Emergency Management Agency, they could offer the DH title directly that would have to be recognized by the SV, per their existing rules.  For those that don't know, some versions of the DH titles offered in Germany closely resembles the AWD1-3 title in structure. 

There is also the option to host joint trials with a WUSV member club, IF, the WDA becomes an IRO member.  It won't be cheap or convenient,  but I doubt those WUSV certified judges in South America would turn down the opportunity to visit the USA on someone elses dime.

Richard M wrote:

"The RSV2000, in my opinion, is already overcrowed with narcissism and they are unlikely to accept any power grabs or challenges from the outside."

I"m  not sure where that opinion comes from ? I certainly don't see it. Anyway, I'm not talking about a WDA take over. I suggested that former WDA members join the RSV2000 and increase the RSV2000 membership and clubs in the US. RSV2000 is already FCI and VDH certified so the path to judges and trials would be much smoother.

As far as you contention that there are many working dog people in the GSDCA.  There are also many working Dobermann people in the DPCA BUT both are AKC breed clubs that follow the AKC standard and NOT the FCI working dog standard. All the supposed GSDCA working  intrastructure has been since the WDA started to be replaced. The WDA was the working arm of the GSDCA until recently.  Anyway I'll stick to Dobermanns but  GSD politics is good for a laugh
:-)

Thomas Barriano

@Dobermannman, most of the WDA people just migrated over to the GSDCA completely. I'd even bet that those folks were members of both the WDA and GSDCA anyway, all of the current GSDCA certified helpers certainly were. Essentially the GSDCA inherited a big chunck of the WDA infrastructure and human capital, so by default they know what they are doing.  As for GSDCA judging, its the SV standard for the IPO stuff and as far as I know, there are no judges certified for both WUSV and AKC yet. 

The GSDCA has two judges that are AKC and WUSV judges. Dr. Goldfarb and Helen Gleason recently became WUSV judges.