vom Banach - Page 6

Lol,you know everyone Jen! Its amazing you know the person because there really arent many, maybe 3 hips,3 testes and that possible "allergie" thing dog in 24 yrs.I have been insanely blessed I know.Good lord,I just had my first C-section ever last year.I dont know how I dodged that but I know Ive been very,very lucky:)
My Contract is pretty much the same,just tweaked it abit here and there. Let me ask this one of you though..what do you think of the First Right of refusal? My contract says it but,from what I understand,that isnt legal.Mine is more of a  "I would appreciate the right then its my god given right".
I heard somewhere..maybe here, that you cannot attach terms to a dog sold outright.Alot of Breeders are putting that in there and are absolutely adement that the dog must come back to them and they do not even have to buy it back! I dont agree with that part.Obviously the dog would need to be evaluated to set price but if one sold it why would one think they shouldnt have to buy it back? I think that one would never stand up in court.

The dog world is really very small.  I don't really even remember who that person was (re: you honoring your contract) and I certainly don't remember the details if I ever knew them; I actually think it was a referral I got from Steve and he had remarked when he gave me their info that they had a dog from you many years ago and that you don't often hear of the people who actually HONOR the contract when something happens. I just remember the conversation because we were talking about Peddy and Saskia. At any rate... there are those that have a shred of decency, and then there are those "household names" that we get calls about and the people are shocked I'd heard of them, ROFL. They all are so surprised, as if they're the first to be ripped off by __________. 

As far as "rights"...how's that saying go? "The right of way exists only to those who think they have it?"   I never had my contract looked over by an attorney. I don't think it is legal, but I see nothing wrong with asking that you get the dog back. I tell people that I will buy the dog back at ANY age for ANY reason, and I will pay what they paid for it. If the dog suddenly needs to be sold due to family circumstances, etc., and say it's had a lot of training, is titled, surveyed, etc. and worth a lot of money, can I really expect the people to just hand it over to me for FREE just because I bred it? I think not! I started thinking about this when I realized I had like 4 well on their way to that and they were not quite 2. That's a lot of time and money invested, and someone off the street would pay good money for a dog ready and waiting to trial...why should they give it back to me for free if they could use the money? So, since I may not have thousands  lying around right then in a pinch, I just ask that they OFFER the dog to me first, and if I cannot afford a fair price, I want to know where the dog ends up. I want to know where they are, who they're with and what's going on in case of health or temperamental issues that are noteworthy. I don't know how to make progressive breeding decisions if I have no idea what the past dogs are turning out like. 

So, I guess in summary, mine comes back to the honor system again, though I do add some incentive in there. I think people are more likely to be straightforward and come to you first if they don't feel they'll be blamed, villified, etc. for a change in circumstances or other compatibility issue...and a full refund doesn't hurt!   I also think it helps foster a feeling of trust if I'm willing to pay what they paid to have that dog back at any point during its life. I don't care if it's 12 mos. or 12 years with cancer.

My contract asked for first right of refusal; I never had any problem getting dogs back when the owners didn't want to or couldn't keep them. I didn't make a blanket statement that I would refund the purchase price, that was decided case-by-case.

It depends on what you're selling, I think. For a different type dog, I would think the same. A different breed, or even GSDs that more went to pet homes, I think asking for it would probably be good enough; chances are, in a family emergency, they are just going to place the dog and investment isn't going to be a huge issue. But when most of the dogs are being worked in some capacity, and enough are being titled and significantly increasing their value, I just don't see how I can ask/expect them to give me the dog back, when I sold them a $1500 puppy who is now 2-3 years old, titled already or w/a BH and ready for a 1, xrayed, has a show rating, etc. as a result of their investment, both time and financial. We all know what a dog that like that sells for. I'm supposed to say "Hey, I know you could sell your dog for $3500+, but right here you signed that you would give it to me for free." I think it's only fair to give them at least what they paid for the dog. Not saying I WANT to buy the dog for what it's worth, LOL, or that I can afford to, but I need to take logic into consideration when expecting them to honor the contract and return the dog to me. 

I think purchase price is a very small commitment to make to ensure the dog doesn't end up anywhere nasty. Maybe they need the dog sold and don't have time; I'd sell the dog for them and then I'm happy; they get some money back for the dog and I know where it went- to a good home! My worst fear is someone doesn't feel it's worth it to contact me about a dog and dumps it somewhere. I honestly can't think of a single person I've sold to that would do that, but emergencies happen, deaths happen, etc. Hopefully, having them know that I will buy the dog and having them tell family that will prevent such an occurrence. The biggest thing, imo, is keeping in reasonable contact. Let's not be stalkers, but friendly acquaintances who check in every few months is really nice. It's a win-win. They get support and I get to know what those monsters are maturing like. 

I got back pets, I got back quality dogs including AKC champions, specialty winners, and top breed producers. I paid to get 2 dogs shipped from Alaska to PA because one owner decided she wanted Rotties and the other just didn't want dogs any more. No way was I going to give them their money back. I took back a dog when the owner found out she was allergic to dogs, I refunded the purchase price on that one. I took back another dog because the owner complained that he frequently opened windows, walked on the roof, jumped a full story to the ground and and crossed a 4 lane highway. They didn't get their money back either. Then there was the 10 year old whose owner married a guy who had white carpet installed throughout his house so the dog was no longer allowed inside. They bought a white standard poodle that he "sanitized" before allowing her back inside after doing her business. No refund.

If you can get away with making sure the dogs are safe and not paying for them, great. I just think it's safer to offer it as extra insurance. Shelling out the cash is a small price to pay to sleep at night, imo. I worry like crazy when something isn't right w/one of mine. I feel better knowing I did everything I could to encourage contact in the case of a dog needing rehoming; if I don't offer to pay, even, then I wouldn't feel like I did everything I could because many of these dogs could be sold to someone else very easily. It's just my personal quirk; I am uber paranoid about each and every puppy I'm responsible for bringing into the world. 

I cared about the dogs I bred too, Jenni.  Otherwise I'd not have kept in touch with the buyers or taken the dogs back. Some deserved refunds, some didn't. Anyone who can't keep a dog from opening windows and walking on a roof or not wanting a 10 year old dog they'd had since it was 8 weeks old inside on their white carpet didn't deserve getting their money back.

I've always thought Right of First refusal was a fair clause to both parties that could protect the dog.   The owner has somewhere to turn and the breeder can negotiate in order to get the dog back.

Nowhere did I insinuate you didn't care about them, Blitzen. I thought I was pretty clear that it was just my personal quirk. I am a bit over-the-top when it comes to pups I've bred. I also agree they don't "deserve" their money back. But if they're scumbags and I made a character mistake evaluating them before selling the dog, I think I owe it to the dog to try and remedy the situation. If they demand money, so be it. If I can get the dog back w/out paying for it, super. But I won't risk it by refusing to give the money back. That's all. 

That's great Jenni, I think a lot of breeders do the same with the right of fist refusal clause without the will pay the puppy price clause you have.  

If someone is going to look out for their puppies, they will regardless of what a contract does or does not say.

Blitzen brings up a good point, if you stay in touch with the owners you can usually tell what is going on and if there is a problem the owner will most likely contact you first.  

I know there are a few breeders that feel that right of first refusal means they should get the pup back for free, and that is not what I'm referring to.  For me right of first refusal means you have the right to make the offer and depending on how it it written possibly meeting any other offer.

And by answering your post I'm not implying that you do not do any of the above, they are just general statements.