Basic Obedience.. - Page 3

a very generous member sent me the 'Game'
 
.  fantastic!

Good luck with your training!

       Q Man.....I am not taking any classes now, I am at a point where I don't know what I want to do.I do not want a trainer to put pressure on me to train a certain way....I think because I am a new handler, and  not knowledgeable about how to handle Prince, in every situation, trainers can't help but direct me in the way they feel is best. Until I get a better idea about my goals with Prince I am going to lay low as it were....I am going to miss the socialization, but I think by getting more control over Prince  through obedience and gaining my own confidence, I will be better prepared to deal with Prince and his issues in time.....I already see some improvement in these areas...

       Question....Prince is CRAZY for balls, and works very well for that reward...I have been playing chase with a horse lunge whip and he chases with excitement...But, he is only mildly interested in a tug or rag....Why would this be???

                                   Thanks...Ruger1

My 2 cents is to stop training your dog until YOU have a clear idea of where you are going.  Really.

If you use motivational training (real motivational training, not click and kick) you can't harm your dog as re: bitework.  As one excellent post above pointed out, this thinking comes from the "old days" and also from "pet trainers" who take all the pss and vinegar out of dogs.

Don't under estimate AKC obedience. Sure, yo can get the title, but to earn high scores *most* schH dogs would need a LOT of work. For instance, some really good dogs are a bit vocal when working as they are so happy and excited. This would be SEVERLY penalized in AKC. ANY whining. And yes, EVERY time the dog bumped you could be1/2 point off. Its no cake walk as anyone who has placed highly can tell you. 

YOu started by talking about "foundations".  Foundation is just that - what everything else is built on. So until you get some idea of exactly what you want, or find a trainer you can trust, I would stop.  Just my 2 cents. 

Soon I will be teaching a puppy class (which I've done before). At least one student wants a more attentive, drivey obedience attitude in her pup and admires what I have done with my adults. BUT I find that very hard to train in a multi-dog classroom environment due to all the distractions, unless the dog/pup has CRAZY ball or food drive that overrides everything else going on. So the question I am debating is can you start with reliable control (low-drive) and after you have a good foundation in that start the drive building? Most of my dogs had plenty of time to develop their obedience in a low-distraction area so I built drive first or somewhat did both drive and control simultaneously.

One suggestion:

I have started out many sport dogs at the local obedience classes by modifying what I do there. I do NOT follow the class protocal, and I have the instructor's blessing as they understand what I am doing. 
While the instructor is blabbing, and all the pups are barkng at each other, ect,  I have my pup over in the corner (to start) giving me eye contact for food or toy. This is almost all i do for several weeks, as the dog learns that when in this situation (crazy dogs everywhere) if i watch my handler tons of good things happen. By the end of the class, my pups are sitting, downing, staying and giving me full attention like adult dogs. No heeling, I do that later where it won't be distracting.  This gives me a fantastic base to start competition training from. Also,  do NOT work the dog an HOUR!  20 minutes max, then in car for 20, then back out for rest of class.  Hope this helps.   

     Diane...I love your posts...maybe I am tried this evening, but I am not sure what you mean by this statement? " My 2 cents is to stop training your dog until YOU have a clear idea of where you are going. Really.

If you use motivational training (real motivational training, not click and kick) you can't harm your dog as re: bite work." "

  *** I have only been teaching basic obedience up till now...not sure what you mean by "stop training"...And to my knowledge, I have been using motivational training...unless your talking about the prong collar I use for his aggression?..

                                                                     Ruger1

Thanks Diane!  I like the idea of just working focus until you have it, then proceding to other exercises.  Only problem with this particular class is that it's the AKC Star (http://www.akc.org/starpuppy/test_items_pledge.cfm) class and each pup has to be able to heel briefly to pass.  I think I keep getting roped into teaching this class because my methods are more modern than most of the other trainers at my club (which is great for pups), but they still hold me to teaching the same exercises in the short 6 weeks.  I think I will work on a modified class (like your example) with this student as long as she's prepared to go the extra mile at home to get her pup ready.  She's just hoping to do AKC obedience, but I don't want to hinder her foundation. 

There are many ways to teach a dog Obedience...But the key to whichever way you use is to make it FUN for both your dog and you...
Your a good trainer if you can teach your dog something...make it so much fun that they don't even know that they're learning anything...
With puppies it's like a Blank Slate that your putting information and ideas on...You must crawl before you can walk...Don't be in such a hurry to get to the hard stuff...Enjoy your puppy...they're only a little puppy once...There's plenty of time to do the stuff that takes a lot of attention and concentration...

Ruger...Even if you haven't made up your mind what type of training you want to do in the future...You certainly can still teach the basics...particularly if you're using Motivational Techniques...
The Sit is still a sit...the Down is still a down...and so on...it's later on that you want to make up your mind what you'd like to do so you can lead your dog in the right direction...But even then it's not imperative that you decide...The decision is...Do I want my dog's attention all the time or not...Sometimes too much attention isn't what you really want...Such as if your teaching Personal Protection and want the dog to guard you...You don't want the dog looking at you all the time...You want them watching out for problems...
It's really better not to do any particular type of dog sport if your heart isn't in it...You want to enjoy what your doing and have fun at it...and that will lead your dog doing the same...
I think your doing the best thing possible right now...and that is to go and investigate the different types of dog endeavors that are available to you and see what fits you the best...and maybe your dog too...Not all dogs are cut out to be Schutzhund dogs...or AKC type dogs...So go and visit as many different venues as possible and see what your interested in...
Schutzhund people tend to get funny about people who just dabble in the sport...I mean the training director or helper hates to put in so much of their own time and blood...sweat...and...tears just for the owner not to do the same...
Schutzhund takes a lot of time to learn...and to teach to your dog...If you don't put the time into it...then your really spinning your wheels...Even for the most part...Going once a week isn't enough...particularly when your learning...You can only do so much on your own...because you only know so much....
Good Luck and have FUN...

~Bob~

QMan...I am going to take yours and others advice and 'chill' for a while....I will be working on dealing with Prince's inappropriate aggression with strangers, with use of the correction collar and socialization....focus on the basic,...have fun and enjoy my pup.....and visit different dog related events to decide what seem best for us.....Thanks for your help and advice...

                                                                                              Ruger1