***Aggressive OR not???*** - Page 2

Bee, my comment was my observation and did not exclude some stupid MALE vets. There are some of each, just that I've not seen more than two female vets that were good enough to work for me...but then, I'm picky :)

I suspect your dog was showing a lot of fear at the vet.  I have a young dog (2 years old) that will literally climb the walls when the vet comes to examine her in the office.  This is a WGSL spay with weak nerve (and that nerve is why she is spayed). 

She is usually pretty good.. but when someone else puts there hands on her, she will vocalize and squirm.. and is clearly in conflict.. as if she wants to be petted on one hand but is afraid too.  She does not shy away... but she will spin in place, lick the person obsessively, and vocalize.. often will show the whites of her eyes.. when someone puts their hands on her (just petting her). 

At the vet she is "trapped" in that she is usually standing against a wall and there is no exit as someone (me) is holding her.  She will become so fearful that she will roll her eyes, flick her tongue, her face gets very tense and she will try to get away.  She goes a bit nutz and will try to climb the walls like a cat.  As soon as the vet steps back about 4 feet (out of reach) she settles down and lays down.  . 

My vet, who loves dogs and is good with dogs (VERY good vet), has said that this dog would be a very serious problem to vet if it had not been for all the socialization and training I do.  He believes under a different owner, this dog would have bitten him by now. and may have been PTS.  All that socializing and work with my dog has paid off. 

Last vet visit she saw one of the partners and her reaction was the same over the freaking top fear.  I put a muzzle on her.  No point in anyone getting hurt... especially a surgeon's hands.  This different vet had the same input as the other vet (also a partner) and said the dog would be dangerous if the dog had been owned by someone who did not train and did not take the dog every where.  Again, he stepped back 4-5 feet and she settled and he said, "What a shame.. she is so bright looking."  She is.. but you cannot deny the nerve issues and those issues are largely genetic.  She has not been hurt or abused. 

Your young dog sounds much like mine.  My advice is to socialize this young dog as much as possible.  Puppy classes for obedience and to teach him to stand when someone else examines him in a  "fake" exam in different places by different people.  Use food to make a positive association while they examine himr.  Take him to the vet, put him on the scale, say hi to the recpetionist and feed good treats and then leave (no exam).  Keep a positive association going. 

Meanwhile, for everyone's safety. muzzle the dog at the Vet's.  I do with mine. 

My suggestion is to first spend time on choosing a vet the same as you would spend time choosing a breeder.  Don't just choose a vet because they are close to the house.  I chose a vet who prefers Dobermans and German Shepherd Dogs.  As well as I personally get along with this vet.  So my vet knows how to handle my breeds and what to expect out of them.  He is even talking about wanting to get a Shepherd pup from the same breeder that I did. Our dogs actually look forward to going to see the vet (they have that kind of relationship)  we try to make it a happy time.  (do you want to go see Dr. Winter)  
we also try to make sure our dogs meet lots of people.  we take them everywhere,  Home Depot, Tractor supply,  PetCo, Pet smart,  and we do this at least once a week taking them to at least two stores that are dog friendly.  Take your dog to Pet smart and see how many people want to pet your dog and put their hands all over them wanting to give them loving attention.  we do this from the time we first get  them at 8 weeks and never have had problems.

I feel for you and your dog.  I had the same thing happen with my dog when she was 10 months old.  I found a new vet and everything is now fine.  Just keep working with him and find a new vet.

Thanks alot for your guys' help and support,
The vet appointment that day seemed to land on a day I went to school, and I had to rely on my mom to take him. I informed her next time to book the appointment when Im available(The other vet check I went to, he did perfectly fine, he got a little agitated and started to squirm at the end, but for the most part, he tolerated it well.
Im not totally sure ofwhat happened that day since I was not there, but my mom made it sound like Buddy was out for murder. In my experience with him, he has never done that, ever, he does tend to mouth pretty hard( cause hes not 8 weeks anymore..)but I can easily stop him with a firm" no", and since 8 weeks he doesnt do it as much. I DO know the difference between mouthing/playing and trying to nip/bite and cause harm. So in my opinion Im gonna switch vets, if I can convince my mom not to spend money on a stupid behavioral consulatation appointmant...

Folks, while I definitely did recommend that the OP try to be present for future vet visits, we need to remember that we don't even know the age of the OP--goodboybuddy could easily still be a minor by law [especially since it was a parent who took the dog to the vet], and there are vets who (not unwisely) don't allow minors to present the pet  or to restrain the pet for examination, due to liability concerns.  Most vets are OK with older teens, especially if a parent is also present, but one never knows... My point is, I figured there was a good reason why goodboybuddy wasn't there for the appointment.

Anyway, to the OP, I want to echo Ruger 1's suggestion regarding teaching your boy to become comfortable with a muzzle, too--for no other reason than it's NOT a bad thing to have him familiar with, should the need ever arise to use one.  Better he become accustomed to it in a positive fashion, when he's not unduly stressed and there's no hurry to have him wear it without a fight, than to find yourself in a situation someday where it is critical for him to allow a muzzle to be put on him immediately and without any struggle. You may never need him to wear one, but there's no harm in teaching him that it's not a big deal, either.

Additionally, the practice I worked in always encouraged our dog owners to make a point of 'dropping by' the clinic with the dog, just to say hello and get a cookie (preferably NOT always at the very busiest time, though). If we were slow at the time, we'd even have them bring the dog back to the exam room, maybe walk them onto the scale and get a weight, or just put them on the exam table and give 'em a few cookies, an ear scratching, and let them back down. In other words, make it a place that isn't ONLY about getting examined and vaccinated and the like. (We had some cat owners who would do this, too, though most cats are less readily placated with treats...)

Is there any other reason your mom would want to spend hard-earned money on a behavioral consult, aside from this vet's suggestion?

Decidely find another vet-I'm fortunate in that my vet use to take care of the dogs for the Sheriff Department-my old male was always a challenge yet he took care of him from 6 weeks till the past January when he was put down at nearly 13 years of age.

Find a good trainer-mine didn't care how a dog acted-she believed they needed training and worked to overcome their problems.

My vet carries a treat bag with him, when he comes into the room - training begins. He reads the pup and if its nervous he floods it with treats and praise. He lets the pup come to him and handles it. He's trained each employee and will ask each to come into the room and do the same. He will not ask the pup to do anything until the pup is relaxed and happy. Once relaxed, I put the pup on the table and once again the pup is flooded with treats, as the exam is taking place, his assistant is flooding the pup with more treats. If pup is getting a vaccination, the pup is give HIGH value treats at that time.

With the first few visits, I plan to be in the exam room for a good long time, when the pup realizes its at the vet its happy and ready.......this tends to last its whole life.

With older dogs, he does the same thing, but to a lesser extent.....

I love my vet!

Well, Ruger 1, after all, if our 'perfect' pup WERE Lassie, they'd be incorrect for a German Shepherd Dog.

Seriously, though, I do agree with you that we can NEVER change who the dog fundamentally is by nature--all we can do is teach the dog what we'll consider to be acceptable behaviors in the various situations you and he will experience, and then it's up to us to protect that dog from any situation where they're unable to give us those acceptable behaviors.  Just as you can't force a Beagle to hunt if it has no interest in it, and you can't force a Siberian Husky to work in harness if it doesn't want to, you can't force a GSD with a low threshhold for interacting with strangers to become a social butterfly, either.  Your experience with Prince, that he'd gladly eat all the treats available, and once they were gone, he'd resume letting everyone who wasn't his family know that he had no use for them--perfectly reasonable behavior for an intelligent dog, since he wasn't connecting the jackpot of goodies with being sociable to the strangers...

As we don't know exactly what took place with the OP's pup and the vet, aside from the fact that the vet clearly overreacted, it's premature to say that his pup is on the sharper end of the scale, too, but regardless of whether he is or not, Buddy does need to be educated via some structured training, preferably with a good trainer in a group class, but if that's not possible, then it's up to the OP to create his own structured training program based on those devised by one of the countless training experts with books, videos, etc. available from various sources.