vom Banach - Page 2

I think a lot of the possoble injuries they are talking about with uniateral HD are suspected to happen at birth or shortly after.  Bones are pretty soft then.

Yes, Betty. It is also impossible to say you know a dog never injured itself. That would mean:

A) you never once took your eyes off of the dog in a nearly 2 year period. You did not go to work, you did not sleep, you did not use the bathroom, and you did not turn your head or divert your gaze at any point.

B) that the dog "tells" you every time something hurts. 

Dogs are very stoic creatures and they don't readily show pain until it is fairly significant. Additionally, muscle atrophy can cause subluxation, obviously, so even just slightly favoring a leg (such as pano, etc.) can make that hip loose enough that it's "banging" around in that socket slightly instead of fitting tightly, so by the time the injury heals, there has been permanent damage to the joint. It can absolutely be bad enough to cause and OFA "mild" rating. 

I have posted this a zillion times on many different threads, but this explains it quite succinctly. http://www.showdogsupersite.com/hips.html

Heiko, pay attention to the part about pet dogs vs. kennel dogs allowed to exercise (hard) whenever they want. For this reason, I don't encourage puppy owners to restrict exercise at all; I just ask that they not force it. Keeping your dog from doing such things is good, BUT, you don't want to limit their regular exercise. Strong muslces are what keeps joints nice and tight. The "weekend warriors" are more likely to show symptoms of HD, if affected.

To those who think they know everything that's ever happened inside their dogs' bodies, I'll share a little story. I got a really nice female pup and brought her everywhere with me- even to work. Every day. She was never  out of my sight for more than a few minutes  if I left my office and left here there or whatever. She was a little monster-type pup, always into stuff and had to be monitored, especially if I wanted to keep my job! LOL   Suddenly, she came up with a very slight limp- almost imperceptible. I assumed a pulled muscle, got her toe caught in crate door, etc. It didn't go away in a week, so I took her to an ortho vet I use. She had MAJOR trauma in both front legs/elbows. Her growth plates had closed in one bone on each side in an attempt to heal from extreme bone bruising. The vet said he sees this most commonly in dogs who are HIT BY CARS.

Didn't really fit the profile, did it? She ended up having to have each leg bone sawed in two, and fat spliced from her belly between the bones to slow the healing so the bones would hopefully grow another inch and her legs would not keep twisting out, which is what happens with a radius and an ulna where one is growing and one is not. No one would believe what was wrong w/her was that serious; she barely limped. But as she grew, it would've gotten worse and worse. Now, if you xray her elbows, they would show as dysplastic/surgically altered (had to remove her anconeal process so it wouldn't rub and cause pain), though the issue wasn't really in her elbows at all, and the elbows were just affected, like a domino effect. 

If this could happen to my dog unbeknownst to me, is it that hard to believe that a minor-moderate injury could cause mild HD to appear on an xray in one hip? 

This isn't really about Julie; wonder if the mods could move the unilateral talk to another thread? 

@jenni78-I said " never had her jumping/running on hard ground till she was well over 1 year of age."
I didn't say I restricted her exercise, just restricted her activities on hard surfaces. 

Please pay attention.

Heiko, please pay attention. Here is what I said. Odd that you would find a personal accusation in that. I apologize for calling your attention to one particular part that is related to  your statements. Rest assured, in the future, I shall not waste my time. 

Heiko, pay attention to the part about pet dogs vs. kennel dogs allowed to exercise (hard) whenever they want. For this reason, I don't encourage puppy owners to restrict exercise at all; I just ask that they not force it. Keeping your dog from doing such things is good, BUT, you don't want to limit their regular exercise. Strong muslces are what keeps joints nice and tight. The "weekend warriors" are more likely to show symptoms of HD, if affected.

IMO there is not enough evidence to prove that unilateral HD is not genetic in nature. OFA has researched that for many years and, as far as I know, they have not issued an opinion. The only conclusion they came to based soley on stats was that the majority of unilateral HD affects the left hip.

Personally, I would not buy a dog from a breeder who won't guarantee against unilateral HD nor would I buy from a breeder who only guarantees against "genetic" HD.

In the event that a dog is diagnosed with mild unilateral HD due to subluxation/shallow sockets,  it may be prudent to have another xray taken by a vet experienced in xraying for certification with the the dog sedated. If there is clear evidence of remodeling then I wouldn't bother. 



 

I think it's a good idea for breeders to suggest that buyers keep puppies on the thin side, maybe not feed puppy chow. I don't believe that overfeeding causes HD, but I do believe it can make the condition worse. Raw feeding causes puppies to grow at a slower rate reaching their genetically programmed adult size later than puppies fed a high calory commercial diet.  The jury is still out on whether or not raw fed puppies have less HD than those that are fed a commercial diet.

I don't like frisbees for any large breed dog, so would not encourage that for a puppy I bred. I think it just makes good sense to not allow puppies to do a lot of jumping. Their growth plates are still open and damage to one of them can cause that leg to not grow as long as the opposing leg. Any puppy that is genetically programmed to have normal hips should not be harmed by running and playing at will. I just don't like to see them jumping up to catch a frisbee and landing hard on their rear legs or jumping on and off heights.

I may be overly cautious with my puppies, actually. I feed raw, do not allow lots of exercise, walks in different areas for socialization but only long enough to see some new things and such, carrying up stairs that have more than a couple steps, LOL! My luck I'd still end up with something with HD/ED!

You're doing the best anyone can do.

"Yes, Betty. It is also impossible to say you know a dog never injured itself. "

Pretty sure no one is able to quote me on saying that...LOL  My dogs would of made a liar out of me real quick. LOL



 

That's interesting about the left hip Blitzen, I wasn't aware of that.

Seems like that would add more weight to it being genetic rather then an accident in most cases.

That being said, this is the first time I've heard of a breeding not covering unilateral hd.