Sportism - Page 3

Prager:

"I have decided to stir thinks up a little. Another Hansism.

SPORTISM : Sportism is training of PP/LE/Mili dogs which uses sport approach as a foundation for PP/LE training. IMO opinion it is a faulty approach because it establishes permanent default (setting) on equipment preference. That is the last thing we want to do if we want the dog to target people.

Yet that is how most train PP/LE dogs."

susie:

I do have another definition though:

SPORTISM: Sportism is training of IPO dogs which uses sport approach as a foundation for IPO training. IMO opinion it is a good approach because it establishes permant default ( setting ) on equipment preference. This is the first thing we want to do if we want the dog to not harm people.

This kind of training doesn´t say much about the temperament of a dog ( it only says that the dog in question does have at least medium preydrive ), but a stable, well tempered, "civil" dog will be able to switch between the drives, and it will do so, if needed.

A "civil" dog without prey drive ( the German Shepherd dog historically was a sheepherding dog, and a sheep dog needs preydrive to do this job, globally said there is no hunting and no food without prey drive ). It´s all about channalizing the drives into wished behavior.

I made the perception, that well tempered dogs are able to learn the difference between "training club" ( equipment ) and "real life scenario" ( to target people ) pretty easily.

The major goal for the German Shepherd dog has never been to be a PP dog, but to be an "allrounder", a breed able to do almost anything, but not necessarily the best breed for everything...

@ Susie
Susie said I "made the perception, that well tempered dogs are able to learn the difference between "training club" ( equipment ) and "real life scenario" ( to target people ) pretty easily"

Think you are a million miles of the mark with that one Susie, it's not a training issue - it's a genetic issue.


Susie said - The major goal for the German Shepherd dog has never been to be a PP dog, but to be an "allrounder", a breed able to do almost anything, but not necessarily the best breed for everything...

Susie long before terminology such as PP was ever used, the GSD circa thirty plus years ago, had the ability/ prescence/back bone to protect, and still be a well balanced companion/pet, it's what made it singularly one of the most popular breeds in the world. 

I am not saying by the way - everything in the garden was perfectly peachy, but I am saying the all rounder you are describing was on every street corner, and was a trusted family guardian.

Unfortunately for many current day GSD's, those traits are no longer built in as STANDARD - as I am sure you are very aware.

Regards
Gee

Gee, I talked about "well tempered" dogs, not about "any" dog. A well tempered dog ( in case I train it  ) is able to understand the difference of "play" and "real" pretty fast.

I am able to think back more than thirty years , the dogs have NOT been better, a lot of them "vanished" all of a sudden, some went to the pound, some died neglected in a kennel, a lot of them were euthanized because of back and hip problems, and there were A LOT OF shitters...

A "good police dog" in the late sixties / early seventies was a crazy minded dog, willing to act like crazy, and willing to bite everybody, no "dual purpose" at all. The police got the dogs nobody wanted to own (liability), they were used for deterrent first and foremost. No dog anybody wants to own...

Times changed, training changed, society changed, the dogs became better, not worse.

Susie - you originally said all rounder, you did not say the evolution of dual purpose Police dogs / there training methods etc etc. Which I agree has improved as has the selection process. The majority of those police dogs back then were donated by owners  who deemed there pet a problem dog.

Still of course goes on - but to a lesser extent. 

If you are telling me that the MAJORITY of GSD's have retained the ability to be good all rounders - then I am afraid, you are cherry picking.

Because breeding practice over many decades has washed out off, many of this breed - those traits which WERE built in as STANDARD.


Regards
Gee

Guess our memories differ a lot...

Would appear so.

My memory - straight back, mostly black and tan, confident. (As previously stated, that type was on every street - A typical)

Nowadays - well, god knows what you will stumble across - white ones, giant ones, sloppy back ones, blue ones, fawning over complete stranger ones, as well as some good ones.

I am of course generalizing, however I am talking about the breed in general and not sub dividing into working / show, which is the current state of afairs and seriously impacts on your mention of "all rounder."

Which is why I am saying - back then the majority of this breed were all rounders.

Regards
Gee
 

I handled a military/ police dog in early seventies, I love reading about what I had back then. Hey, but you can't argue with the Internet. Training has progressed in some ways, but the all around GS was much better then than now. That's why you had plenty of GS doing herding, seeing eye work, LE work, and military work in many areas. Today??? Seldom see seeing eye, lost military/LE position to Mali, farm work is down also, but they EXCELL at sport and show. All a rounder better today??? Okay, I accept that the same as I accept all LE dogs in early seventies were crazed...I'm so glad I lived the truth. Sure there were some dog dept that weren't as thorough in training, but many were.

I handled a military/ police dog in early seventies, I love reading about what I had back then. Hey, but you can't argue with the Internet. Training has progressed in some ways, but the all around GS was much better then than now. That's why you had plenty of GS doing herding, seeing eye work, LE work, and military work in many areas. Today??? Seldom see seeing eye, lost military/LE position to Mali, farm work is down also, but they EXCELL at sport and show. All a rounder better today??? Okay, I accept that the same as I accept all LE dogs in early seventies were crazed...I'm so glad I lived the truth. Sure there were some dog dept that weren't as thorough in training, but many were.

Gustav - exactly.

R
Gee

Deleted off topic

Western Rider