Sportism - Page 2

Prager, why is your bitch in the vid so sleeve focused, weak on the bite and your decoy coaching the dog in PLAY drive to desperately keep it from bailing?

Duke that is a theoretical truth. But in reality I have never seen in my life 100% preydriven dog. But this is not about prey vs defense. This is about what you teach the dog. Do you teach them to target equipment or the man. if the dog is sport teach target the equipment if you are starting with a pup from get go I prefer to start the dog to target the man and not the equipment. The problem arrives when we import sport based dogs for LE . Which is what is going on just about all the time these days. Then the dog needs to be retrained to target the man instead of the dog. There are then basically 2 ways to do it. 1/classic method is described in Jerry Bradshaw book Controlled aggression where the dog is channeled from prey on sleeve to man who is trying to seal it in front of the dog. There the default stays the sleeve. That is not what I prefer but with some dogs do. However I personally have a problem when the dogs are being deformed by such approach from equipment to man on purpose. 2/ If I get a sport dog which I want to transfer to PP/LE dog then I use parallel approach. In another words the dog in this system may be great sport dog and also - on parallel and unrelated line - it can be a civil PP/LE dog. I call that by anothe Hansisms - parallel dog training. In this system I take the sport dog and teach him protection from the scratch the  same way as I would teach the dog who does not know anything   and I do not use his prior sport training at all - which would be sportism, but by use of different venues , decoys, commands and techniques I build new - civil = man targeting defaults. Such dog then does not associates sport training with civil PP/LE training like the dog where sportism is used and where sportism dog is trained linearly from toy to sleeve to man.

 

 Prager Hans 

hans, I agree that you train a dog in the direction you want it to go, this is especially important for sport points dogs, as points are easily lost, but the young dogs raised for police, IMO the most important is to make sure they are well socialized/prepaired environmentally, and that they have the proper balance of drives

for preybiting in a dog it is all the same if he bites a sleeve, a pillow, a bitesuit or a hidden sleeve, its all prey intended bitework

if they will bite for real is without equipment is about the dog and not about the training

with all respectthe videos you showed of a pup biting a sock or such on someones arm is preybite and not setting the dog up or training it for live bites at all, it is nothing more than a pup playing tug

I would like to say that people who do not agree with my approach are welcomed to train their way. I am posting this only for people who are intrigued by this not totally new approach which I have based on old techniques which I have learned in Europe and perfected it by incorporating Parkey techniques which I have learned from late Charles Sharkady ( Sun Valley Kennel Phoenix AZ) and I have developed it into my unique system which I am continually improving mainly based on needs and imput which I get from law enforcement with which I am closely cooperating and teaching them . For what ever it is worth, I have successfully trained literally hundreds of dogs and myriads of dogs have been trained that way by for long. long time by many other trainers.

Duke what ever you say. :)

its simple actually , every dog in czech republic needs to be trained and titled in order to be allowed to breed, does that make each of them unsuitable or hard to switch back to biting someone without equipment presented goes the same for training KNPV or RING a good dog is good by genetics and can be shaped somewhat by training, in the end what ever program or system it is trained in doesnot make a good dog bad or a bad dog good wont deny that a crappy trainer can ruin a good dog and a top trainer can make an average dog look good,  we see that alot

Duke I can refine it. IMO opinion if the dog is not trained to bite sleeve and is trainet to bite man instead,  than that is what you will get. However if you train the dog from sleeve to man than that is what you will get = dog who prefers sleeve over man. That is what all this writing is all about. There are millions of ways to get there to PP/LE dog .  This is mine.

BTW correct me if I am wrong and I mean no disrespect, but it seems that you are putting prey in opposition to civil which you think is only done in defense. The fact is that both - prey or defense can be trained in civil way . That is what I was doing with Chichi on the video where she was young pup.

BTW2 here is video of Chichi where she does muzzle attack for first time. There have never been installed in her mind any equipment orientation no equipment orientation. As a matter if memory serves me correctly up to now she has never even seen sleeve and she was only put on suite after she was proofed to be civil.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HbGdl7oJ9A

no im not putting prey in opposition as civil , but see the difference where a bite is motivated by preydrive or motivated by defence/civil first

and in all your experience over the years hans, did you ever find a case where a criminal was found to be wearing an IPO sleeve and a whip LOL

No I hve not that is why when I train dogs from scratch they do not see any equipment what so ever until they are civil and their civil defaults of targeting man are established. As far as your post about all dogs being sport that is not so. per request from LE agencies I am dealing with they do not want tiled dogs and do not ace for papers. However I do get sport type dogs here and then I am using usually parallel training where I establish correct civil defaults without using any of the dog's prior knowledge of the sport training... as I have described it in the posts above.
If the dog is trained to be sport dog then not all is last and proper civil defaults can still be trained.
As far as SchH , KNPV, Ring sport goes they all are building on dogs by establishing equipment defaults wich is what the way I training is avoiding or trying to avoid at all cost. . .