Ideas for gun shy dog - Page 5

I don't think I created the initial response because of a strong bond, not at all. But with the first dog, I do remember comforting him and that is the worse response, it exacerbated what was already within him. I learned since him.

With a solid nerve dog, I think they would look around and settle on me. If I am neutral and confident, the dog will accept it as a simple fact. It is better not to create a pattern of undesirable responses, those are harder to fix than improving on their confidence. I think, LOL

However, this will be Rhino's first fireworks coming up and I can't help but am wondering if there is a best way to make sure there is no over the top avoidance response. Yet, if his nerves are there, it won't be a problem so, we shall see!  I've seen Mojo leak drive with the same event when compared with Rhino who just stays cool as a cucumber. But Rhino always checks, and makes eye contact with me.

That's what I am hoping for any way! LOL Any sign of distress and I'll put the dog(s) in the house.

Botanica,

Let me start by saying I have just gone through some of what you are experiencing. It took some time but just so you know it can be done, we now have our IPO 2 with scores of 89, 90 and 89. I was told it could not be done, the dog would never stay under gunfire etc etc. The other thing I will say be brutally honest about your dog. I realized my dog became gun shy after he had developed a low thyroid coupled with a firework incident that my older beagle spooked from while he was in the yard with her. I also knew he had no issue with gunfire before these two things occurred.
The other advice I will give you is know your dog. I listened to several [people on how to handle gun shyness and took all that info and developed a system that worked for my dog. I started with the gun shy training video (Got mine for Gundogsupply). I went all the way through the steps exactly and it does help. I then started with a cheap cap pistol from walmart. My dog has insane food drives , so I wold ask him to platz where he could see his food bowl(about 60 ft from me, food bowl by me) I would fire a shot from the cap pistol. Here is where you have to know your dog. I was advised if he reacted pick up the food and go inside, do not talk to your dog. I realized after three tries he did not know what was expected. I started again with a shot, if he rolled his eyes or looked away, all avoidance issues, I said "No" and when he looked back I gave a reassurance word, "good". I fired again, repeat, when he continued watching me even with a shot I rewarded with "yes" and food. It did not take long after that. We continued to where I could heel while shooting the gun myself. I then repeated with a competition style gun. Then moved to other people shooting. I also had to realize by this time I had a gun shy issue. I was expecting a negative reaction and all my body language showed it. This severely effected my dog. A trainer friend caught me by suprise and while I was headed to start my heeling he went ahead and fired the gun. My dog gave absolutely no reaction. He politely informed me at this point I had more of an issue then my dog.I was able to change my perception and started traini ng like there was no issue.  We scored a 90 in obedience under Hartmut Beckman DVG judge who is fair but tough. No one there knew my dog had ever been jumpy under gunfire!! 

Lorelei
 

I think you're quick to label your dog as being gun shy.  Familiar noise in a new environment, you jumped, causing your dog to jump. 

Obviously, the ideal thing to do is recreate the incident, with you acting different.  if he still jumps, then I would give him something to do (like turn on) and then have the gun fired to see if he reacts.  If he reacts the same, then you have an problem.  If he doesn't react, fire the gun without giving him something to do.

If you can't go back to the same place, then find someplace similar.

What a nice post, Lorelei.

Thanks Blitzen.

I agree, that was a very good post by Lorelei. 

I work on the issue in a similar manner as I described in an earlier post.  I use two additional people and the handler.  One has the gun, the second watches the dog and handler.  The handler simply works or plays with the dog.  The second person cues the first person with the gun when to fire.  The job of the second person is to watch and evaluate the dog and handler.  When the dog is in drive, he signals for a round to be fired.  The second person watches the reaction and gages how the dog is handling it.  A good reaction and the first person may be given the cue to fire again.  The distance may be shortened or increased depending on the reaction.   This removes the handler from the equation and does not offer any body language to the dog by the handler. 

Lorelei, I will give you a tip to avoid being startled yourself.  If you think a gun shot will be fired and you prepare yourself, you will not be startled.  When we clear buildings or execute Search Warrants I prepare myself to find some one behind every door or in every room we enter.  When I enter a room with suspects I am already prepared mentally to meet them and not surprised or startled.  It is the surprise or shock that startles you, not the actual sound.  People under a lot of stress or even fatigue startle easier than when they are calm and/or rested.  That is something to keep in mind as well. 

I have worked several Police K-9's through this issue, they had some seriously bad experiences with gun fire.  I am currently working a couple of sport dogs that have genetic issues or weak nerves, they are doing well and will be fine.  It is something that can be corrected and worked through.  The Police dogs I mentioned that have good nerves and good genetics work through it easier and faster.  The approach is a little different as well.  Your dog and experience is a little different than Botanca's.  We have a dog in our unit with a Thyroid issue, once properly diagnosed the dog was like new.  I do not think a physical ailment and a jumpy handler is the root cause of Botanica's issue.  I believe it to be genetic, not from a bad experience and certainly not caused by Botanica.  As I said before, it is fixable and not the end of the world. 

JMO FWIW
 

Slamdunc,

Thank you for your comments. I did not intend to imply that was what was wrong with Botanica's dog, just passing on as to what happened with my dog and what I did to work through it with my dog. My reaction to the gunfire came after I realized we had an issue. I started preparing myself during heeling to try and catch when the gunfire would occur so my body language led my dog to believe it was something he needed to worry about. Now, I don' care when it comes, I just heel and reward attention like I should have in the first place. 

Lorelei  
 

My bitch is similar to Lorelei's. Her gun issue started after a bad firework experience; before she was fine. Freaking smart dog, she even built associations with the color and smell of the gun, the way the shooter is holding his arm (gun or no gun), and walking down the obedience field.....and all of this made her nervous.
It took a lot of finesse training to have her tolerate gun shots. I played "touch the gun" games, had my husband shoot it from distance (cap gun), shot it myself with her on lead while making a huge excited fuss about it; trained arm positions while holding the gun, heeling exercises under gun fire with ball reward (timing!!!)  It took a lot of work to correct an issue I created.
Yes, cap guns are allowed to set off in the city. I had called our PD, and even put flyers in my neighbors mail boxes that they will be hearing gun shots. The PD appreciated the call and marked my address in case someone calls in shots fired.

@Jim, where in VA are you at?

Dogs are experts at reading body language and anticipating actions.  I would venture to say that 80% of what a dog responds to is from body language.  When dogs communicate it is primarily through body language.  They are extremely adept at picking up subtle clues from their handler.  When I test and select dogs for our PD I keep the gun hidden and generally fire the gun at the ground next to my thigh.   There are a couple of reasons for this.  It is often the first time I am seeing the dog and some dogs become extremely aggressive.   If the dog gets loose I prefer to not have the dog targeted on me.  I have had a couple of interesting moments testing dogs.   The other reason the gun is kept out of view is to avoid any cues or body language given to the dog.   

Elkoorr,  I have never had a GSD like this one. He has a memory like an elephant, never forgets anything!! Constantly have to work to stay one step ahead of him!! Sounds like you do to!