Ideas for gun shy dog - Page 4

THANK YOU, RLHAR, for posting that. I really appreciate it. It is very, very helpful to me, as I can't see myself from the side and evaluate how my behaviour looks and how does Chaos react to it. I didn't think I was that stressed, but I guess I was wrong, the whole trial is a blur and hard to recollect. I truly wish that I had someone to tape the whole routine, so I can see what I am doing...

I honestly didn't realize that I was correcting him that much during the traffic portion. Yikes. I thought I was praising him more than correcting him. I really have to train my invisible dog more and become more aware of what I am doing, before wondering what Chaos is doing. Thank you again for posting your observations.

I would suggest taking the dog back to square 1, and make it all positive. I would definitely locate someplace outdoors, where you have some regularly occurring gunfire: gun club, police range, etc. which will make getting this accomplished easier, without having to stage your own gunfire. The ultimate goal is to have the dog be neutral, and non-reactive. As some posters have said, a lot of dogs now tie the gunfire to the whip, or gunfire during agitation/apprehension exercises, so they then relate gunfire with aggression. This needs to be taken out of the equation, so that gunfire means that rewards, play, food, etc. is coming. Some people even raise their puppies with a gunshot from a starter pistol being their "dinner bell".

I train neutrality to gunfire like this: As a pup, or young dog, I take them to the range and park the car at a distance, windows closed. They become acclimated pretty quickly to the gunfire. Next, I take them out and play ball, or do some light OB at a distance. I keep it all fun, and don't pay any attention to the gunfire in the background. Then, I move the vehicle a bit closer, with every session. I leave the windows up, or partially up, which muffles the sound a bit. Repeat as necessary: every dog is different, so their progression is very individual as well. I have had great luck with this method. I like a dog that is gunfire neutral. If the dog hears it, and glances toward it, then refocuses, I personally don't see that as faulty...maybe for strictly a sport dog there are point deduction issues, but I prefer a dog that is attentive to it's environment, so I don't personally have a big issue with it, though some may disagree. I have considered using the gundog training CD's, and if anyone should know about gunfire issues, it should be the gundog people. I think it's important to steal....errrr...."borrow" every tool we can from other venues...maybe it will be very valid for the working dog crowd as well. Since not everyone has the ability to be near a range with any frequency, this might be a viable option.

Good luck!
Tim Connell

Botanica37,

Let me put a little different prospective on this, comes from someone who handles dogs and is NOT a super handler by any means. Just someone who gets very nervous before a trail to a point I think I should be "drunk" on the field to make it through..LOL (just kidding).
Yes, you can be a nervous handler, even to the degree the dog runs off the field just to be away from you...(not a strong dog but not a complete wash out either) because s/he is so conflicted by the change in handling and body language. Trust me I have seen dogs run from the field to get "away" from the "new confusing handling".
We are all guilty in steering our dogs in a BH trial. I was told I navigate the whole time... all the time, I dislike the leash part because I have this really bad habit of controlling my dog. Leash comes off, and for the past 15 years, every one of my dog's performance is a a much better level as soon as the leash it not there! It is because I perform better without the leash...all my fault. So many of us struggle with correcting the dog through the leash part of the BH.
I highly doubt your reaction caused your dog to react the way he did.... the dog wanted to run to the car, away from the noise. And it happens sometimes that some dogs don't handle some situations well. Work through it and you got some awesome advice here. I really doubt you are causing it at this point. Your response was not the best to your dogs reaction but you did not cause the initial startle, that came from him, not your body vibe!...

Good luck I am sure you will do right by your boy.
 

Jenni,
Relax and re read my post.  I walked away from the computer for a couple of hours after I started my response and did not see RLHAR's till now. I actually started responding before RLHAR responded, not that her post would have made much of a difference with my approach.  Trial nerves are one thing and if that is the situation, well then my advice still stands.  I suppose I am not allowed to disagree with you???? Geez, woman.....What can I say.  Yes, you need to assess the dog and objectively define the dog as to character, temperament, structure, working ability, etc.  People need to take the rose colored glasses off and some times take a hard look at the their dog's strengths and weaknesses.  It's not a knock but we all need a little introspection every now and then.  
 
On another note, unlike many "breeders, owners and so called working dog" people on here I have never dumped a dog, sold a dog that did not meet my expectations or re homed or PTS a dog with behavioral issues.  I have kept all of my dogs for their entire lives with me.  I never advocate dumping a dog or putting an aggressive dog down.  I am sought out by other Police agencies to correct problems with Patrol dogs that other trainers couldn't or wouldn't bother to help fix.  

Again, if you could move away from the personal attachment you have and re read my posts you would see that I said finding the cause of the issue is part of finding the correct treatment.  Sorry, to offend you that was never my intention.....But, I think it is a character issue, genetic or otherwise.  I don't think anything that Botanica has done has caused this or is at fault for.  It is simply in the dog from what I have read here.  I wouldn't be so quick to blame it on the paternal grand sire either.  I also don't think it is a very big deal and certainly fixable.  
 
Botanica, best of luck with your dog.  I think GSDpack is right on as well.  I hope you get this straightened out. If you are in Virginia you are welcome to come out and work with us on correcting this.  I really don't think it would entail all that much.  I've offered my opinion FWIW.  

Best of luck.

Maybe this will make you feel better, Botanica. The first and so far only time I showed my female in Rally A, I was so nervous that I took a wrong turn at the 3rd station and did the entire course backward. The dog did everything right, I didn't and it was a DQ. It's been around 4,5 months and I'm still trying to work up the nerve to try again.  It ain't just YOU.

Slamdunc, thank you. Sent you a PM.

Oh, Blitzen, I am sorry to hear that. I hope you do work up the nerve and try...it is supposed to be fun, not sure why we get so nervous about it

Jim, I have no idea where you've come up with just about most of what you wrote. Offending me? Personal attachment? Blaming paternal grandsire?? You posted that you disagreed with my personal opinion, which I found entertaining (still do). You can disagree with a premise, but you can't really disagree that something is someone's personal opinion, which is why I found it funny. Sorry, I'm a nerd and I laugh at goofy semantics stuff. Nerd jokes, English major kind of stuff....I read it again, and laughed again. Sorry. It's funny...not cop humor, I guess, but funny to me. You just look at things very differently. I've worked with enough guys in your profession to know that we simply view certain things in a different light and that's fine, but there's no point in trying to recruit each other to our way of thinking.  Different personality types excel at different tasks. Makes the world go 'round. I  threw out hypothetical scenarios, rumors (sarcastic, at that) on where it could come from, to show how utterly useless they are,  imo, to illustrate my point that my opinion is based on my thinking that "WHY" is not the important part but "HOW," as in "how to fix this."  

I think everything is genetic, to a certain way of thinking. You can say something environmental caused a certain reaction, but hey, the way they react to past experiences can be argued to be genetic as well, so,  I explained to THE BOARD, not to Jim (the parts directed at you were clearly directed at you), why I feel the way I do about labels and dog training.  FWIW, I feel the same way about labeling horses and kids.......;-)  My opinion is they're not helpful except in a case of a time crunch and it's wash or work. Again, not talking about you at all;  I know not and care not (not trying to sound rude)  what you do with your personal or patrol dogs and apologize if you thought I was speaking about you. It's sometimes more difficult than I realize to portray tone via internet. My post was extremely lighthearted. 

I do know that few dogs have the kind of bond Chaos does w/his handler...probably few ever will. Chaos is a pet- full time, bona fide family member, kid's playmate, uncrated, flat collar-wearing spoiled brat. . He is so attached (some would probably say too attached...but I disagree with that, too, LOL) that I bet once she decides working him in a trial is  fun, and isn't nervous, they'll be a hell of a team. 



 

Jenni,
I will agree to disagree with your opinions!   

I believe that Botanica understood what I was talking about.  I offered some suggestions on how to address or correct the issue which are what is needed.  It's great that you are an English major, that is not going to help in this regard though.  Sometimes practical knowledge and hands on experience by dummies like me is actually beneficial.  A strong bond is nice and on the downside can create a handler dependent dog with a weaker nerved dog.  However, lets not say that the reaction this dog has to gunfire is from "being to closely bonded" to the handler.  Being strongly bonded does not create gun shyness. 

Botanica the offer stands,  you are welcome to come out and train and work on this issue. 

Botanica and Chaos,
I have that kind of bond Jenni describes with my dogs, too. IMHO, I actually think it is quite common amongst many types of dog owners. Like you too, I would never consider to rehome or return any dog that crossed my threshold, because of sound sensitivity. Didn't matter if one dog liked to seek refuge in the bathroom when a shoot 'em up violent movie was playing on the TV. Or the one that began to scratch at the bedroom door because he years later, decided he really, really wanted company to ride out a midnight storm. Or the real crazy one that would want to attack at the sound of thunderstorms or fireworks. I just learned about the "whip cracking" with that one from this thread. So that is what I saw? Hmmm. I always wondered why he did that, and I swear we never used a whip on him, ever. 

I said that last bit, very light-heartedly....Best wishes on working through this, and having fun doing it. ...

Bee,
Do you think that he strong bond you have with these dogs created those problems?  Or was it some thing else?