Breeding opinion - Page 4

@Workingdogz! Noooooooo don't get me wrong I never meant to say titles aren't important because I really do think they are! Some posted that none of the dogs in my Doug's pedigree weren't titled which wasn't a true statement! I was saying that the breeders I got my dogs from we're not into the competitive side of Shepherds but were using them outside of the show ring! I believe that nothing plus nothing equals nothing! I mentioned those titled big names because I also believe you can only get out what's in there! It takes a great deal of training time and effort to title a dog so I am by no means bashing those who have titled dogs, who are titling dogs, and will title dogs in the future! As for as all the health certifications even though I won't be competing all of those will definitely be done on all my dogs because whether a dog is competing or actually doing service work their physical abilities and health are a priority! 

cowboy,
You need to worry about the dogs in the first 1-2 generations moreso than the
3rd, 4th and 5th etc generations. No matter what 'greats' are back there, if your dogs
come from mediocre, you cannot expect anything more from them production wise.  
You can however expect less than mediocre from them. All dogs will produce
less than stellar progeny, just because paperwork may be impressive, it is up
to the dog in front of you to prove he is what his breeding says he is. And in the case
of multiple untitled/untested generations of dogs, well..nuff said. 

After reading this thread then finally going to the pedigree I just realized....Those minutes of my life are gone.

Dont feel like repeating myself...again.  Its an OCD thing.
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/forum.read?mnr=677167-adelhaus-gsd-screwing-people-not-giving-akc-papers&pagen=5#686033


Lets say your walking down the street and and you overhear two very drunk winos discussing the new plastic bottles of Mad Dog 20/20.  Are you going to stop and participate in the coversation?
Ponder that for a bit.

Research for the above analogy here http://www.11points.com/Food-Drink/11_Cheapest_Ways_To_Get_Super,_Super_Drunk

I know, I am mean.  Hopefully tactfull. 

LMAO, the fact that someone took the time to do a cost analysis on
cheap alcohol amuses me beyond words. 

Alright live4schutzhund enough with the sarcasm lmbo! I'm not new to breeding did it 21 years with pit bulls so I certainly understand about the 1st and 2nd generation idea! And based upon that from what I've seen from my males mother and father I am very pleased with them and my males they are doing exactly what I'm looking for and doing it well! When I bred pit bulls I knew so much about them that I knew my bloodlines other bloodlines the pros and cons of each bloodlines the characteristics that the bloodlines carry! All I was asking basically what types of dogs can you expect from the lines I have! Maybe it works a little different with shepherds I don't know but I'm trying to learn! I may have been breeding dogs a lot longer than some of the EXPERTS! I'm not new to breeding just knew to Shepherds. It's like a person who's been driving Fords all of their life and then they come to their senses and switch to Chevrolet they don't need to learn how to drive all over again they just need to learn about the Chevrolet all I'm doing is trying to learn about (Chevrolet) Shepherds! Well I'm a pastor and my congregation awaits! Please be blessed and I will check back after service glory be to God! 

Let me try to put this is bull dog breeding terms. If you owned Grand Champion "Rebel's Shady Lady" and a cur APBT or an unknown unproven APBT and a man 250 miles away owned "Garner's Ch Jeep" who would you breed too. What betters the breed. Yes I personality knew both of these dogs.  Now take these puppies and do not test them and breed them what do you have? Probably nothing. It takes both a really good dog and a really good pedigree to make it breed worthy. BUT I would say this IF you want to start you own blood line breed your two dogs and keep them all then breed the best and cull the rest. But there is no money in that for 10 or 20 years. If you really want to "better the breed" buy the best that is out there and breed it correctly. Breeding to better the breed is really really hard and very expensive.


Best of luck
Paul
 

@Paul! Jeep definitely! And certainly I do understand that even within the same litter there will be some that just won't make the cut and without some form of testing there's no guarantee! I've always had the idea that you can't tell a whole lot from puppies! Sometimes you may end up getting rid of the best and keeping the worst! I've actually seen situations where the hot pup ended up being a dud and the laid back pup ended up being a show stopper! Dogs should be and must be tested I chose my male specifically because I saw his parents and liked what I saw although they are are not recognized on the show circuit! Paul Rebel's Shady Lady is down off of Rascal isn't she? And if you know Jeep sounds like you might be from GA as I am! 

I am deffinately not an expert at breeding.  I am an expert at marketing, sales metrics, demographics analysis, and P&L forcasting.  Hence why I do not breed...yet.

Good luck.

Bottom line, If your target market is your town, then you will spend alot, make little, and drown with a dog heavy kennel.  If you plan on stepping out into the national, international selling arena with what you have....dont.  No amount if jibber jabber about dogs from 20 years ago in the pedigree will help. 

I could go into detail about identifying the available market share, target customer, what it would take to attract that customer (market share) to you vs your competition etc etc but it would really be a waste of time...

I strongly suggest you get past the scarcasm and click on the link and read my post.  Will save you years of pain and failure.

@live4schutzhund! No don't have the time to get out like that my main business is leading the lost to Christ! One reason I'm not looking to compete is because I simply don't have time! Thank you I don't have extra money to waste! To all of ou who have commented I know you're like me and you just want the best for the breed!

Yes and no Florida LOL. Too hot for me I live in Missouri now.  I was at all 5 shows, she was the finest of all in my opinion. Ricky Jones said Sandman was better. That being said If you think your dogs are real good I would say find a club SchH or PSA  club ect. and test and train. Like in APBT it is not what you or I think it is what other see and believe.

The test of the dog is the show, the test of the blood line is time.


Paul