Working the sleeve - Page 2

Wow, weekend warriors, huh?  Funny stuff.  Who exactly are you referring to?
 

sjbo659,
When you get into working dogs in bite work you will quickly see how detrimental doing formal obedience before laying a foundation in bite work can be.  Perhaps, you should go back to the local working dog club and watch for a while with an open mind.  You may see they have more knowledge and experience than you are giving them credit for.  Get the info before making incorrect assumptions.

Jim

Do all of you GSD people only pick out certain things when someone posts something so that you can be criticle of the person who is wanting information.  If that is all you can do then you probably qualify as a week end warrior by my definition.  Its obvious you have taken what I was saying out of context so you can go after someone who has a different breed.  If all your baseing this on is the fact that GSD's are the most popular therefore they have to be the best then again your not being honest with yourselves.  Personally I would put up any one of my Bouvs one on one any day with some of those I see on here that everyone fawns over.  If its drive and working ability you base everything on a dog does not have to have titles in order to have either.  Oh and my dogs are well trained in obedinece but believe me they would bite if push came to shove with no hesitation.  My question from the start was to ask for information on " why bite and sleeve work is done before and not after proper basics in training".  No wonder you do not see to many other breeds on this site.  And thats why I did not go back to the local club here.  It was the same elitist attude that a lot of you display here.

sjbo,  you do make some good points but you have to also realize that the same shoe does not fit everyone.  But as you do point out there are sme bad clubs but only you can decide what is best for you.  I am sure you have very good dogs and its obvious your wanting the best for them but try to see the other point of view as well.  I would venture to say that there are probably two camps to your questions as well.  Those who beleive in basics first and those who don't as some of the other posters have said.  You have to decide based on what your plans are as to which you will follow.  I am new to this site and it seems to be a place where you will find the answers to a lot of questions.  But like everything else in life your going to have to work your way through the chaff to get to the meat.

sjbo,
Your question was answered by several people and was pretty much the same answer.  It is not a GSD, Mal or Bouv thing it is the standard way to work a dog in SchH or any protection sport.  Formal obedience on most any young dog inhibits the dog and makes bite work much harder.  I have decoyed for many years and have seen many dogs ruined because of too much formal OB on young dogs.  I have also spent months to get these same "great" working dogs to bite and work in protection work.

It seems every time you post you have a chip on your shoulder.  You ask a question, get answers from several people then get upset with the answers.  I would guess that I have decoyed and done more bite work with Bouviers than you have.  I have also worked many GSD's and Mals.  People that are serious in working their dog and even competing in protection based sports do not do heavy obedience until the foundation in bite work is established.  That is a generally accepted practice and training regimen.


If answering your question and disagreeing with you makes me critical, than I guess I'm critical.  But you are mistaken in your view of bite work and  the role of OB in dog sports and the order in which they should be taught. 

Since I have experience with Bouv's, I did mention to you that I decoyed at the NAWBA (North American Working Bouviers Association) Nationals a few years ago.  I will gladly put my GSD up against any one of your Bouv's any day.  We can track, do OB, Bite work, narcotics detection you name it.  I'd be game.   No need to challenge people to hypothetical challenges on the PDB. 

Again, this was not about GSD's vs Bouv's it was about answering your question about the effects of heavy OB on Bite work. 


Lighten up a little.


Jim 

Jim, thank you for the great reply.  I do appreciate when someone answers in a respectful manor without any hyperbiol.  Its those who post and are smart mouths that really bother me becuase I do not ask to be stupid.  Just for an aswer.  I always try to thank those who reply with good advice but tend to get somewhat perturbed when someone is just makeing non productive statements.  I do not have a chip on my shoulder but will defend what I feel is right all day long just as you will do the same.  I also applogise about the stupid remark about putting my dogs up against GSD's.  That was a dumb remark on my end and it was uncalled for.  I actually love and respect both breeds even though my prefered breed is Bouviers. Thanks again for the reply. Steve

Your welcome.

Jim

STILL never got to hear what  your definition of a "weekend warrior" is.   But you know what, I really don't care anymore.

Sjbo, I appreciate that the board is diverse and many people own dogs outside of the GSD, but you, my man, come across as having a chip on your shoulder, someone with something to prove. Maybe I missed something, but from what I've seen, you've asked for it. I rarely, if ever, see people bring up breed when posting, but you continue to spout off how much better your dogs are. Hell, you started a thread about how much better Bouvs were than the GSD. The sad fact, is that most GSD people just laughed and took it as comedy. And you should realize that not everyone on here has a GSD.