EXTREME Aggression - Page 4

After reading all the above posts - I too am in total agreement with Llilydexter's post. So more people dont read into the posts the wrong way - please enlighten us all to why we are reading and taking the in impression from your posts that you are all totally ruining this beutiful breed of dog. Why are the words aggression, in nearly every post? Why would anyone want to breed dogs that are aggressive? - that cannot be trusted? - that bite their handlers??? all in the name of protection work? I dont get it?

Russ Osburn doesnt have a nutcase dog, he is one of the best trainers in the sport and Yes hes a serious dog with a serious trainer/handler in Russ....

well said Diji! I printed out & re-read the comments, and although a lot of responders suggested the mating was not pursued, most replies contained info about thier own dogs aggressive nature. The German Shepherd was bred to be primarily a Sheepherder, not the Hound of the Baskervilles. With all the ads on this site for puppies with comment such as 'high prey drives' and 'bites hard' I wonder where we are going, that's all. In the wrong hands the emails on this thread could be very detrimental to the breed, it paints a very bad picture & it does make me angry. As for being lady like, its something i've never aspired to be & anyone who keeps their 'Czech male in the basement in a bear cage' wouldn't be the best person to make judgements in that department. Or maybe you were just being ironic?

Lily and Diji, The agression that is being refered to here is agression in the protection phase of Schutzhund! My dogs are all totally stable in public! I think you are taking this whole thread out of context! Have you ever seen schutzhund or been to a schutzhund trial? There is a certain amount of agression that is required, or instead of agression I guess you could say a certain amount of protectiveness a dog needs and I believe that is in the standard. These dogs are herders, yes. But an important job in hearding is also to protect the flock, you need agression for that! This post is not about making mean dogs and upon reading your comments further I have decided that you MUST not be knowledgeable in Schutzhund, I don't know how else to put it! I am sorry for you, but, if you would like to email me privately I would be glad to help you understand how schutzhund and sport dogs work! Vickie

LaPort, Russ's dog Bronko is a very nice dog! He just needed a handler to understand him and his needs! Russ lived with this dog for a year before he ever asked anything from this dog! Russ is an excelent trainer and Bronko demanded excellence! Vickie

Lily and Diji, I agree with powerhaus, strong aggression should be shown in the protection phase of SchH, or when the dog percieves someone to be a "threat". If a dog does not demonstrate powerful aggression in protection it is considered a fault/flaw and dualy noted by the judge during the critique. However, it is my opinion that a dog MUST be balanced. Able to determine a threat (suspicious/aggressive stranger) vs. a non-threat (friendly stranger/child) This is why I personally do not like the combination of extreme aggression and a NON-social dog. It paints a picture of an aggressive anti-social dog with a bad temperament. In the breed standard it says that a GSD should be ALOOF (ie. not lending itself to easy friendships). But this does not mean he's unapproachable, it means he simply ignores/does not pay attn. to friendly advances. I have a SchH/ex. Police dog that is very social to friendly strangers. I have another female that is very aloof. I personally like having a social dog, especially when the same dog shows excellent power and aggression in the protection phase of SchH. He is NOT equipment oriented, he just has a clear understanding of when to show aggression and when to be social. He is a therapy dog/canine good citizen, temperament certified and a joy to have in the house and in public, but he'll knock the socks of the bad guy! IMO this is how it should be. Descriptions such as "high prey drive" and "bites hard", "extreme aggression", these are ATTRIBUTES in the right dog and NECESSARY for a working dog. To understand better maybe it would help to look at my boy's webiste http://andymalyvah.tripod.com IMO if the original poster described what he wanted as "aloof" instead of "non-social" I don't think the tone of the responders whould have been so negative.

GSDfan, good post, I hope we can get Lily and Diji to understand! Vickie

Lily, I read one of your posts again and wanted to respond to you about my Czech male that I refered to. Yes, he stays in a strong cage in the basement, I call it the "bear cage" because it is the only one he has not been able to destroy! 1.) The strong cage is because he can easily mutilate a crate in just about a minute, I was tired of him eating my crates, it gets rather expensive! 2.) I beleive to keep him crated when he is not with me is RESPONSIBLE! Keep in mind that this dog goes every where with me, to work and all! 3.) I have another male that lives in the house and they can not easily share the same space. 4.) It is about 10 degrees here at night and I do not want him thrown outside! Therefore, he has the basement, that is warm and free from other males! My laundry room is in the basement also, so I am down there all the time. There are 8 windows so he is not a mushroom! He is crated for his own safety, nothing wrong with that! If you know ANYTHING about Czech lines they can be tough dogs, they were bred to protect the borders of a communist country! No one leaves and no one comes in! These bloodlines had a purpose. The are now highly sought after for their toughness on the SchH field! This male lived, actually he ruled a family and their home! He was never given any boundries so was quite a bully that was used to running the show when I got him! He WAS NOT BY ANY MEANS suitable for a pet home with people who were not experienced in how to handle a spoiled rotten dominant brat! But, you know what? With me he will always stay, till his last day, many owners would land his rotten butt at the shelter! I will not, I made a comittment to him and it is a forever deal! He was left chained up in the yard at his previous owners home because I suspect they could not and did not know how to control him. So, he lives a cushy life with me but is not allowed to be a spoiled brat anymore. He is worked regularly and there are strict rules that he has to work on every day! He is learning that he is not my boss and is pretty low in the pack order! The exact oposite of what he was at his original home! Not everyone can handle a dog like him, but I can and I love him! He is really a better dog since he gets to go out and train and do what he was bred to do! I think I am not disqualified from being lady like to commit to him like I have! Vickie

I don't know Russ or Bronko, but when someone wrote "I have seen Russ's dog Bronko(Crock son) and he IS a handler eater" it gives one a bad picture of the relationship. How about "I have seen Mr. Smith's son, and boy can he give his father a black eye". Can't resist the analogy.

GSDfan,you are very fortunate indeed to have such a dog as your GSD sch/ex police dog that has normal GSD temperament (you describe him as being able to make judgements about people and situations and executing appropriate actions based on those judgements, while being able to be very friendly and social when appropriate, and yet he can be appropriately protective when indicated). This is what everyone should breed GSDs for. These GSD are worth their weight in gold. Congratulations for having such a wonderful GSD and for knowing what good and normal GSD temperament is.