USA HOT RESULTS? - Page 3

what breeder is making excuses for a dog of their breeding?  The dog that was there from my breeding never tracked at all - he was pulled due to injury before tracking.  Sometimes there are actually legitimate excuses, eh?  Other times, just whining.   Me, I was just stating a fact from my own experience - sod (turf) tracking is difficult, with or without the added "help" of fertilizer, recent mowing, weather or temperature.

molly

Molly- pulled is not an excuse eh. That is dog game luck. If you have trialed enough the luck has bit you in the butt. It is hard to get everything to line up for a team to "put it on the field. You have been there and done it so you know better than most eh. Hoping the gods of schutzhund smile warmly on you and yours eh. Bob

Didn't the club hosting the event make any arrangements with the land owner to avoid this?  Between the fertilizer and pesticides I  wouldn't track my dogs on a field that had been treated.

C. Wilkins

For what it's worth I didn't think you were complaining, Molly.  I get tired of all the monday morning quarterbacking from the peanut gallery after a big trial.

Molly, serious question here, not picking, I really would like to hear you (or somebody that knows) the answer since I don't know.  Why is sod tracking so difficult?  The first group we tangled with said it was the only way to train, nice smooth school fields which is basically sod.  Sod farms, places like that.  I understand the fertilizer and stuff but you made that sound like a side note.  Another topic I really want to learn about, please.   Our one boy wants the tougher conditions the better or he gets bored, is that part of it?

Thanks Molly, and any others willing to explain.

Sod is difficult for several reasons.  First - some might say that fresh-mowed (bushhogged, recently hayed, etc) grass is difficult because of the fresh-cut smell of cut grass, can be VERY strong - with sod/turf you can double/triple/tenfold that as it is mowed VERY short, and VERY often.   Sod farms grow sod like other farms grow wheat, corn etc - the grass is kept golf-course short - or shorter - the grass is like little nubs of green sticking out of the soil.  The soil is pressed down, firm, no loose dirt - so not much for scent to 'stick' to - add to that the fresh-cut smell, coupled with the smells of the tractor - can be quite difficult just for that reason.   Add the frequent chemicals, fertilizers spread on sod - this can not only mask any scent that is laid over it, but can also mess up the dogs' scent pattern completely, not to mention the possibility of making the dog sick or ill from injesting or inhaling the chemical/fertilizers.   Several people mentioned that THEY could smell the fertilizer on the sod fields at the HOT - if the people could smell it, the dogs must have been choking on the smell.  Some may have found it overwhelming.

Sod is completely flat, footprints cannot be seen unless it is so wet there is a "wetprint" like your footprint on tile when you step out of the shower.  As with a wet footprint anywhere, the wet (and the scent) will quickly dissipate - and disappear.  Nothign to hold the scent for long.  Not a lot of crushed vegetation, as there is not a lot of vegetation - not a lot of wet can hold on to the surface, so not a lot of scent can hold on.  So the dogs are automatically working with minimal scent dropped by the tracklayer, and minimal if any crushed vegetation scent.   So not a lot of scent after the near-hour aging for Schh3 level.

Add temperature to that - if the day is hot and dry - say goodbye to the scent even faster.  Again, nothing to hold the scent on the ground.  Add some wind, rain - even a breeze will carry the scent away, can completely remove scent quickly, or move it to another location (hence some dogs will have trouble on corners, miss articles, etc because they are tracking scent that is off the real track).

I tracked on sod in a trial once, at an AWDF years ago with one of my excellent tracking dogs.  She did great, but she could have just as easily done terrible.  There is a picture of her tracking on that sod field in that trial on my home page, with  Mike Hamilton judging (he is in the picture too) - in that picture you can maybe get an idea of how flat, how short, how difficult that sort of tracking may be.

molly

http://workinggermanshepherd.com

Margaret,

I wasn't singling you out, nor did I type your name.  If you felt that I was talking about you, then I don't know what to tell you.

I was actually giving a compliment to the breeders who care about the results of their breedings.  I know you are one of those, so if you still want to throw yourself into my post, be my guest!

Once again, congrats to the competitors!

Donald,

my question was - what breeder were you talking about that was defending their own?  Usually on this list, the need to defend comes from false statements and rumors from the know-nothing sideline experts who like to type instead of train. 

molly

Thanks Molly for taking the time to explain about sod.  Boy I could just kick myself.  Most of my imprinting with my puppy 4 years ago was on sod.  It was where we all worked because the sod farm was so generous to let us use their fields.  If you don't mind, I would like to copy your explanation and send it to my friends in MD.  It is no wonder that sometimes the dogs were so off on their tracks.  My friend thought it was her stubborn East bloodline dogs.  Like I said, I could kick myself for imprinting a puppy on sod.  Won't make that mistake the next time around.  LOL.

sunshine, I never recommend training a young dog, or even an experienced dog - on sod, or any short-mowed grass such as soccar field, golf course, or close-mowed lawn.  Because of the reasons I already mentioned - it makes the track VERY difficult, even without the fertilizer/chemicals that are put on sod fields - soccar fields have too many cross tracks - any public park is an unknown as to who was there walking around on the field and when.  I might use this kind of difficult track to TEST my dog before he trials, but it would be a once-in-a-while testing sort of track, and I would be prepared to help him through any difficulty, and I would have to know exactly where every footstep was in order to properly train and help my dog.  Ideal tracking conditions for training any dog to track is lush hayfield, or grass bushhogged, not mowed - 4"  high or so, not too long but not too short.  Or tilled dirt (thick, deep, damp, can see footprints)  Clean (as in hay field, bushhogged field where noone walks around), and in the morning when the grass is still damp and the temperature is cool.  I don't believe in setting dogs up for failure in any training - in tracking IMO training on sod or other similar conditions, especially with cross-tracks (as with soccar fields or public parks) is setting the dog up for failure - not good training and definately a reason your friends' dog may have had trouble.

as I mentioned before - I have tracked my dogs on sod in trial and they did great.  I do test my dogs occasionally on difficult conditions, especially when I know what the tracking conditions will be in a trial - and so they are prepared.  But my day to day tracking is never like that - my tracks are set up to give a challenge, but allow the dog to always be successful with minimal help on my part - I just hold the line and let the track train the dog.  Works for me and my dogs' success in tracking is proof that it works, at least for me and my dogs.

molly