Are people that gullable? - Page 2

scott45acp, Dutchess is a beautiful dog with a quality working dog pedigree. What irritates me about this guy is that he makes claims about HD and obviously is very uneducated about the subject. The OFA currently ranks the GSD breed at # 37 for Hip displasia in breeds having at least 100 evaluations between 1974-2004. OFA states that the GSD breed of those evaluated 19% are displastic. These are not stats of every dog in America but there's no way the number would come close to 95% as this guy claims. He also claims "It is a genetic condition that can through very selectively breeding be all, but eliminated" What a crock of shit. If HD could be eliminated through selective breeding it would have been eliminated years ago in Germany, because the SV has required hip certs. on every dog that has been bred since the 60's or 70's. It's good he is screening for HD, and It appears he buys quality dogs for breeding, which is more than I can say for most pet breeders. It's a bit pricey for pet quality from untitled parents though.

Talk about lack of homework again, and yes people are this gullible because they have little else to go by and fewer still want to dig deeper or would even know where to start. Few people also think the next logical thought when reading this that if 95% of the population is already affected and these breeders breed with part of that population then their dogs must carry the genes as well. Just for those that are interested the OFA stats for dogs tested between 1974 and 2004 are 83746 dogs tested, with an average of 3.4% Excellent and 19.0% Dysplastic. I assmue the 19% includes all dysplastic stages, the site does not comment. What is missing are numbers for Good, Fair, Borderline, etc, in order for this information to be really interesting. http://www.offa.org/hipstatbreed.html Trends (either some improvements have been made or fewer bad results have been submitted: http://www.offa.org/hipstatbreed.html?view=2 Scott, you can research a dog all you want, we talking nature after all and no breeder can predict if all pups in a litter will be free of certain ailments later in life. If you want to be sure to get a dog that is HD free you would have needed to get a young adult that was already screened. If you raise the puppy well, feed and exercise it properly then chances are your pup will be fine. And if problems come up, there have been a lot of advancements made in affordable treatment so that many dogs with less than perfect hips can lead a good life.

Hi GSDfan. Nice to see someone else is using the tools available out there. I don't recall when the SV made HD screening mandatory, but it was not quite that early on. New breeding requirements need time to prove themselves worthy, just like ED testing is still voluntary with the SV at the moment. The growing demand for ED stats has already caused the SV to add it to their screening program and list it in their own databases. It will become mandatory in the future, though an exact date has not been set yet. Fact is though that HD screening began in 1966 in Europe and North America and that yes, since then nearly 40 years of selective breeding has not been able to eliminate HD. But it is not as bad as it sounds. The SV also states on their own website that 30% of HD is considered genetic, 70% acquired.

These puppies should not cost that much! Some breeders who spend hours and months training and titling their dogs, training them for AD, driving for hours to shows, certifying their hips, educating themselves and doing tons of research to select the best male for their female, and then driving across the country to that male - they often sell their pups for the same price that this guy sells! The guy who just has a yard full of dogs and breeds them interchangeably! He breeds pets, and fair price for them - $300-$500. It’s not about what the market can bare. It’s about taking advantage of customers. When someone is looking for a pet - why not to go to a shelter and save some poor unwanted dog? When someone is looking for a pet "with features" - beautiful and with drives - why buy from this guy? He says that "it's genetics that produces good dogs and not titles" Well, yeah, but how do we know that his dogs have good genetics if he talks down at titles? I am not saying that only titled dogs should be bred, no, but his position about titles and prices on his puppies is totally wrong! MO

WELL SAID MAKOSH!!

Hey, I don't disagree that this guy is a piece of work cashing on on the emotions and naivety of the general public. However, some breeding to and from titled dogs aren't anymore ethical. What about those who do title and then sell for breeding to those who have never titled a dog in their lives and don't intend to? It happens every day, a puppy from a well known titled sire out of a simlar dam is sold here in the US for top dollar to someone who they know will breed it and not title first. Is there really a difference between breeders like that and breeders like the one we are speaking of? Why don't they place dogs with people who won't title with a limited AKC registration? Because they wouldn't be able to sell the dog of course. It cuts both ways.

Hi All, here in the UK we have a scoring system for HD, where the lower the score the better. The last time I remember the breed average score for both hips to be a total of 19. Though I have also heard that total is now more realistically somewhere between 14 & 19. Whatever, my main reason for commenting here is to say that in my understanding, unless a dog has Zero score for hips, he/she has some degree of HD. Not that any of us worry at all about those which score under the breed average, but maybe if one were to calculate the percentage of dogs whose score is Zero as HD free, then perhaps it could be said that only 5% of the breed is HD free. Just a thought for you all to ponder on!!! Regards Sue B

Not sure of the requirements in the UK, if all results are reported or not. Those using OFA most likely will not submit xrays they or their vets believe will not pass, so the OFA statistics are only representative of those dogs seen by the OFA evaluators; they are not necessarily representative of the entire GSD population. I suspect OFA's percentage of pass vs fail is a lot lower than the real world findings. No one I know wastes their money to submit xrays on dogs that are obviously dysplastic, so all the OFA stats show are the number of dogs receiving OFA certification vs the number that did not. Anyone who has a vet who can't tell the difference between most normals vs most dysplastics should look for a new vet I think. The close ones might get sent to OFA and maybe some of the obvious ones just to honor a contract and receive a replacement. Otherwise, what't the point? I certainly wouldn't bother.

There is somone here on the board doing what you say is horrendous she put a pup for 2500 on her website from untitled unrated parents of good bloodlines as she always breeds them but when she advertised same pup on here she drop price to 1500 but still nothing more than a pet pup she breeds every heat for the life of the females starting before they are 2 she has a male advertised that was supposed to be her new stud dog, made me wonder if he couldnt do the work. To me no matter how good the parants came from bloodwise these will never amount to anything more than mass producing pet puppies and false claims to what they are bilking folks of the price that would be had for real pups from titled parents to me even though the actual lines are good this too is puppy mill. Puppy mills dont have to be in a grungy worm infested feces stacked kennel to be what it is. If you are not improving the breed with a coupling be it titling or work or yes akc obedience or tracking or herding or sar whatever the dog does if that dog is a representative of what a German shepherd is and has proven itself and will be a vital continuance of the lines and you are not just breeding them to make money on puppy trade then I believe somtimes there are reasons they should be bred without paper traces of what they have accomplished but very very few of these deserve it compared to what is being bred. Not all good dogs of extreme worth are titled onto paper but it is wrong in my opinion to breed a kennel full of dogs for money and not ever giving back to the breed. I dont know if anyone understands what i am trying to say many times I have been misunderstood on here and attacked to the point i barely wish to respond it is my heartfelt opinions and doubtless will irritate others again.

GSD NEWBIE I have seen this post before...why do you post it again..do you have a vendetta against this woman?