2006 BZSZ bitework - Page 2

Ulli Dresbach wrote: I talked to the guy who checked tatoos at the Schutzdienst event, the guy is a workingdog judge, and he said,quote :" The best Schutzdienst there was, was by Karats Ulk. It makes me rethink about showlines !" Hello Ulli ! I saw Karat¿s Ulk protection at the Siegershow and must say that is one of the best work I have seen of a showdog working in bitework.I wish every dog out of the sholines would work so. Who did say " The best Schutzdienst ..." ????? Please let me know. Very best regards Terry

ok brittany you must also look at your statement. In your opinion. I have several opinions about working and show dogs but i can only go by the rules of the SV. Also the stuff you see now is th same stuff in any working even. the question i have for you now is this. Does cheap shots, or bad grips test the character of the dog or the training of handler. Ill answer that question for you if you don't mind. cheap shots, re bites are all products of piss poor training. Should a dog be kept out of VA status because his owner can't train well enough to control there dog? That isn't the fault of the dog. Nor is the dogs grips.Grips are at least 90% genetics. Most police dogs dont bite full. In fact that is why they are police dogs usually because they wont make a good competition dog. What they need to test is the nerves of the dogs not the grips. Understanding which is which is how we will improve the breed.The WDA universal seiger for 2005 bit the helper on the leg at the nationals this yr. Do you consider that a re bite or re grip, or cheap shot? Should we exclude we take away his universal seiger title because of that? there are many many great biting show dogs if you will... the problem with show dogs these days is obedience. that is what keeps most of them from 1top competition. If we fix that problem then we will see a big improvement in the quality of performance at seiger shows. Ceddy

Ceddy my friend you are killing me. Full mouth grips are genetic indeed. If the dogs initial grip is not full but rebites to have a full grip that is excellent. If the dog grips and it is not full, then gets worse and or comes off during the drive, that is very possibly a nerve issue. If the dog comes off and does not re-engage the helper, that is possibly nerves once again. Poor nerves are a product of bad genetics. Working judges DO look at a dogs grip and comment on the grip. "The WDA universal seiger for 2005 bit the helper on the leg at the nationals this yr. Do you consider that a re bite or re grip, or cheap shot?" When a dog bites the decoy on any surface other than the sleeve, that dog is out of control. The judge could have dismissed the dog for being out of control. I would concider it a cheap shot indeed. Because the bite work is pass/fail does not mean that it is permissable to be incorrect. Perhaps it should be scored like the BH which is pass/fail. You must get a minimum number of points to be placed into the pass catagory. Kyle

Hi at all, did anyone of you see the bitework of Odin vom Holtkämper Hof? How did the rest of the VA-group his job? Regards

Kyle, finally i got a response from someone who at least understands what is the dog and what is the training. That idea about the bh is a great one.But until they change the rules there is nothing to do about it. What really gets me kyle is when people speak about grips and only see part of the dog.. Its the whole performance in bitework that you have to look at. Grips are a big issue true but it in all shepherds.It just seem most people make a big deal about show dogs and forget the nervy won't bite working dogs. If you go to the nationals you will see only about 10 performances worth seeing the rest is as bad if not worse than the seiger show dogs. Also one more note. Im looked at the bitework picture of karat's Ulk.It seems to me he has a control issue as well. if that was the best then we need a lot of help with our training Cedric

Hi Ceddy I agree there are weak dogs in the c phase in both camps. I am personally into the working lines. So a working line dog that can not do the c phase is really a mess. Atleast the pretty show dog still makes nice window dressing if they can not perform in the c phase, LOL. This is the unfortunate state of our beloved breed. As long as folks are doing GSD's for a full time vocation and living, we will continue on this slippery slope. There is a saying in our club, "the show dogs pay the bills", breed surveys. I believe the real issue in training the c phase is aiming for the minimum to pass. Breeders that routinely send their dogs out to be trained. Judges that pass dogs in the C phase and give TSB ratings that earned neither. As long as you have people that don't understand training in the C and don't care about the C phase, this problem will always exist. Kyle

<<>>> He is one of the best show dogs in bitework. We had him on a trial sleeve at 7 months, and already was giving us deep full powerful grips. In Ulk case the bitework was genetic and the control during bitwork is training LOL. My Karat's Ulk son is the same like his father. Extremely powerful crushing deep calm grip. I have worked some of the hardest working dogs over the years out of Yoschy, Tom, Mink, and both Karat ulk and several of his son's will out perform many top working dogs when it comes to the grip and the shear power of that grip...ouch!