Letter from Dr. Heinrich of the WUSV - Page 14

Btw Swarne...I'm pointing things out about the dogs, the breeding, the general GSD knowledge and the bull that is being written. Your best buddhy Les...has attacked various people's families, their education level, and their general knowledge of other topics that have nothing to do with GSDs, dogs, or anything this forum is actually meant to discuss. Not sure why you give your best bud a pass on those things, maybe you find them funny because you're on "his" side and so he gets to say whatever he wants because you find it acceptable. But get off the "I don't have a problem showing respect" horse...you are clearly extremely biased and subjective when it comes to your favorite Kiwi.

Ok, Bavarian Wagon, here's the help you needed.

In my case it began in pre-computer 1972 when the breeder of my Jena (my obedience bitch) and Rella (our foundation brood) http://lesp90.wixsite.com/lorelei-gsd-kennels (the LSH Mitzi had Jena's sire and Rella's sire's dam - NZs first 2 SV Gold medallists, under "your" Philip Hutter) returned from Europe and showed me photos of http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=207-heiko-von-oranien-nassau (make sure you scroll to "my" Picture Gallery).
He was so DIFFERENT to the l-o-n-g AlsatiOns and DEEP-bodied short fore-armed Prick-Eared Bassets that judges were promoting that I was forced to explore the few Standards available in books and eventually decide that "Deutsche Schäferhund is right, AlsatiOn-etc is WRONG".

I don't know whether the copy-pasted links will automatically become hotlinks, as YOU claim. Lets see. If it doesn't, I'm sure you know how to still use that? (It didn't, so would you admit that sometimes, you are ALSO wrong?)

No need to thank me, just treat this as my payment for whatever I have learnt from your posts in the distant ( well, not so distant, I think) past, despite you being a hopelessly irrecoverable Dogsports addict.

Dogsports addict? I support minimum titling requirements for the GSD. All of you "what would Max do?" people always seem to ignore the biggest part of his legacy.

I appreciate the link. I needed a laugh. Unfortunately by that point, Les had attacked me personally to a point where I started ignoring his posts (notice how I haven't responded to him in this thread after a certain point as well). I don't involve myself in discussions where people run out of fact, truth, and anything objective to say and resort to attacking people's education level (which they know nothing about) and also the things they might've or might not have experienced in life.

High class breeder you're supporting there...lovely contract and guarantee..." If my pup is a show-male, I further guarantee that I will not breed more than 1 litter from him before having an official (NZVA or BVA or GSDCAustralia) Hip Score and Elbow Score available, and I will not stand him at public stud until he has gained Breed Survey Classification.” Like I said…BYB and others like them continue to breed as long as they have the support of people like you. Hey…at least they can only do one breeding before getting hips/elbows tested…that definitely helps the breed! Forget titling at this point…who needs health tests?

 

There's your poster child for what happens when titles and health tests aren't necessary for registration or puppy sales. Tons like him in America as well...and people wonder who's to blame for the terrible GSDs being produced all over the world and the claimed "downfall of the breed." Look at your heroes...that's exactly who's led the charge. Seems like just the right person to hold chair positions in a national breed club.

"Btw Swarne...I'm pointing things out about the dogs, the breeding, the general GSD knowledge and the bull that is being written."

Wait! Do you now expect me to copy-paste the excerpts from your posts from two different threads to show you what you have made the highpoints of your debate? I don't think I have learnt THAT much from you!

"Your best buddhy Les...has attacked various people's families, their education level, and their general knowledge of other topics that have nothing to do with GSDs, dogs, or anything this forum is actually meant to discuss."

I know him as much as I know you. I don't boast about knowing anything about GSDs (that's why I joined PDB), but I am proud of my better than average education & IQ level which helps me to understand what is right and what is wrong. And, don't forget, YOU started the insulting game by unnecessarily belittling a person's country, one's ultimate pride, only because he dared to point out the TRUE MEANINGS of TITLE and QUALIFICATION.

Bavarian Wagon, we are cross-posting, but where from did you get that idea that I value Les's view about GSDs more than yours? Nowhere did I say that !

I am just pointing out to the highly crappy parts of your posts to which had been a healthy debate, I mean this thread. The "title" thread had already gone downhill, once you decided to ruin it.

 

corrigendum: Please ignore my last sentence. Susie has JUST revived the "title" thread with an excellent specimen of what I THINK a Post should be!

Bwahahahahahahahaha! Someone is pulling a leg, hope Les isn't missing one. 

 

My apologies that your country is your ultimate pride. I value a lot more things that I have a lot more control over than the country I'm from.

I didn't belittle New Zealand. I stated a fact. A fact that if you want to ignore, is up to you. The fact is...countries will limited breeders, limited training/trialing options, are ultimately greatly behind the 8 ball when it comes to consistently producing well-bred and TO STANDARD German Shepherd Dogs or ANY BREED for that matter. When you don't have a wide variety of dogs to chose from, when you don't have "new blood" and the option to not have common ancestors in 5, 6, 7 generations, your breeding program and the understanding of the breed suffers. When you don’t compare your breeding stock to that outside of your country…the breed suffers. It’s simple things that I know because I LIVE IN AMERICA WHERE EXACTLY THE SAME THING HAS HAPPENED. Although we have a high number of breeders not all breed to the standard, very few title, and very few go out there and compare their dogs to others. The breed suffers. It’s why Americans are constantly shipping in dogs from Germany to work in their police departments and for new breeding stock in our breeding programs. Lack of titled dogs, lack of genetic diversity, leads to the bottlenecking and the ultimate decline of the breed as a whole within the closed community (country).

When you’re relying on breeders shipping in semen or importing retired dogs that someone wants to get rid of for one reason or another, the breed suffers. It is still a highly limited gene-pool, with no one doing the research on the dogs they’re breeding to because all they have is videos and phone calls. If you think anyone outside of Central Europe and the United States is getting the top quality breeding studs…you’re kidding yourself and living blissfully in a world that isn’t reality. One look at that webpage, or the pedigree links provided and I can tell you that not a single one of those dogs would compete with anything the “major players” have to offer. It’s just a fact. You don’t have to be a GSD scholar to know that. Is that a shot at New Zealand? No. It’s just the truth, as hard of a time as the United States has competing with what Germany, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, and some of the other European countries are producing…a country like New Zealand doesn’t stand a chance.

Location, location, location…mostly proximity to training and successful bloodlines is what any country needs in order to produce working dogs at a high level. Something that the United States has trouble with due to our vast expanse, and a country like New Zealand will never get over because it’s a world away from the center of the GSD universe.

Swarn, what´s your point?
It doesn´t matter if someone says "title" or "qualification", it only matters if someone ACTUALLY trains and titles/qualifies.

As far as I realized the people commenting on this thread are used to the word "title", and as far as I was able to check, all the English speaking IPO training/breeding clubs officially use the word "title", too. The use of words change, but some people are not willing to acknowledge any change - IPO TITLES ( QUALIFICATIONS ) originally are German, there had to be a translation, English speaking people started to use the word TITLE ( same with other translations, in Germany we call a cell phone "handy", ridiculous for a native English speaker, but that´s what it is called in my country. Wrong? No! That´s our GERMAN word for cell phone...)

Mr Pauling neither titled nor qualified according to WUSV standard, but in spite of his outrageous education tends to behave like the Godfather of the German Shepherd Dog breed, insulting people over and over again. That´s no fun, that´s not behaving like a gentleman, and that´s not behaving like a "sportsman" ( I forgot, he isn´t ). We are not his pupils, we are adult people, some of us knowing more about this working dog (!) breed than he will ever know.

It´s not about the roots of the English language, it´s about civilized behavior

Excellent points Bav, just one question, what does improvement of the breed have to do with the meanings of Qualification & Title? And why should a person from New Zealand have to stay in his little island if he tries to point out, with examples, what the TRUE meanings of those two words SHOULD BE? You have already admitted that not everything about GSDs in America is RIGHT. So, what's the problem in admitting that calling Qualifications Titles, though VERY widespread, is WRONG? Crappy breeding is also very widespread in America, you said. So, is that RIGHT also? You said - " a country like New Zealand will never get over because it’s a world away from the center of the GSD universe ". I am sorry I again have to provide an example not related to GSDs. I don't know why you try to find some ulterior motives when I do, though. America is the greatest power of the world right now. Way ahead of other competitors. You think that status will remain FOREVER? Do you know how many times (I admit I don't know, either, but MANY) that status has changed in human history. Every country has its own pace to reach its goal.

 

GSD is a very young breed. So, don't yet give the final verdict.

Susie, we have cross-posted. But I think I have made my point. Yes, it doesn't matter to the breed whether someone or everyone calls a qualification title. Only matters when someone has to be confined in a little island for calling it qualification.