VK4 ? - Page 8

Susie I greatly respect you and the when you talk I pay close attention. Now while I prefer the "German" German Shepherd, and don't have a lot of use for the American lines of the German shepherd. To call it a lowering of the standard would be an opinion and actually go against some of the things you stated right before that about professionals. If they fit their purpose, love their dogs and take care of them, then for them their great and they would probably feel that for them the German lines were lesser.

as far as vk my opinion for what little its worth. well intended, goes for shock value, passionate, will argue something even if he knows he's wrong. (my dad would do that and when you would get aggravated and go to walk away he would ask if you wanted to change sides. for him it was great sport to argue or debate)

Rt, I´m not different, I do have my "opinions", too, everybody should have an opinion.
In my early days I wouldn´t have fed any "unuseful dog", during the years I changed my mind. Every dog deserves a good life, but not every dog should be bred. That´s my personal "opinion", no rule.
What I tried to say is that this forum calls itself "international" - the rules for breeding working dogs differ from country to country, but the people posting on this board are coming from everywhere - it´s normal, that people breeding or handling according to the German ( only as example, because I m German ) standard think different than people breeding to the AKC standard.
On the other hand it´s normal that someone who owns or trains PP dogs is looking for other traits in a dog than people who want to participate in agility or flyball.
My opinion: The German Shepherd dog is a working dog breed - the only possibility to test working ability is to train and test the dogs prior to breeding.
"Breeding", not owning, loving, playing, just "breeding".
All of us do have an agenda, all of us are the result of nature and nurture ( no difference to dogs ), but a forum/board, that claims to be "international" has to accept international opinions, not US opinions only.

Rt, forgot to ask, do you like your father? Is/was he a good human?

Opinions are one thing and you know the saying about opinions.

We are talking about respect, civility and manners.

"We are talking about respect, civility and manners."
That´s something I´m willing to subscribe in a heartbeat - but honestly, a lot of people are that attached to their dogs, that they are not able to think realistically, and everything you may say is too much for them.
Maybe I don´t mind, because over here you have to go through several trials/shows/breedsurveys prior to breeding, and it´s quite common that you raise and train a dog for two years, only to acknowledge that all the work was for nothing. We are used to it, it´s routine. We KNOW that not all dogs are made for breeding, we don´t mind. But as soon as people ask on this board for any proof, be it health or working ability, a lot of people feel offended, and the beat goes on...Different agendas, different cultures, different goals - and the hardliners from BOTH sides are not able to stay calm and find an end.

Then what's is the beef? Vk wasnt always nice, we agree, right. And if we do then it is what it is. And the thing is he knew this so he shouldn't be shocked and he should accept his part in it and if he does then this is meaningless, right?

I only tried to point out that an "attack" for one human may be no "attack" for the next.
A person doesn´t need to be nice, but honest.
I never read personal attacks made by VK, nor slander.
His manners are not always the best, sometimes he is rude, but he contributed a lot to the forum.
After all it´s your decision and not mine, I am just the user of a free forum.

My father was never rude or belittling of others. You could tell your wife " you are so ugly your face could stop a clock. or you could say when I look at you time stands still. Obviously that is a joke but it still shows you can say the same thing two different ways and get extremely different results. Its all in presentation

No, honesty is not it all, nope absolutely not. I will never buy that one. 

We are better than honesty at the expense of trashing someone. Way better. 

I expect better. If you say something bad to someone and feign honesty, what does that say?

GSD Admin:   " Honestly, I don't really care about how active it is, the forums are only one very very small part..."

Why don't you care about the activity?    Isn't that part of your function on this site, to monitor activity?    I am baffled by your response, is why I ask, not to incite anything or "challenge" you.....