WHY IS THIS WOMAN TRYING TO DEFRAUD US?? - Page 6

Sportstuff, I’m new here and my only interest lies in learning more about the animal. I cosseted a strong impression the latter, and not people, was intended to be the proper focus. But, a mere cursory glance at many threads readily reveals hidden motives pursued by individual members under multiple aliases. That is, improper subjects driven for personal gain, general self-promotion or what have you. I’m disinclined to become further embroiled but, to conclude, note as follows. The Victory Website trumpets being all things to all men in the Shep world, as well as presenting an image of professionalism, if not a certain slickness - and as backed by decades-long experience of its owners. Little wrong with that but, it seems to me one can’t have it both ways! Or, present an image of possessing great resources and relevant skills – including apparently the brokering of German imports and general sale of dogs and pups to others – and then enter a medium of this nature over a slow $300 refund! They will supply a range of services to others but are unable to provide an appropriate animal for daughter from own breeding program? And, were also unable to do so from one of surely countless established and trusted contacts as accumulated over decades! (Their website’s exposure of course, as well as your own persona, received also a welcome boost from this thread?) Finally, I’d note that were every transaction that went askew, or those merely so perceived, encouraged toward listing in this forum, there’d be room for little else – or for a hundred similar boards! And to what end: a sudden miraculous change in human nature, stupidity, greed or gullibility!

I don't see that the Victory website is any more self-serving than any others I've looked at. I've heard of both these people in the AKC/GSDCA world and they have very good reputations and have earned the right to do a little bragging about their dogs and their accomplishments. Maybe the real objection is these people own and breed AKC lines too, show and finish AKC champions and are members of the GSDCA? Also since when is it illegal or immoral to broker German imports?

I agree with Blitzen. Danie, Please reread my previous comments. Are you trying to help or spark an arguement? As I said I am only looking to help. How is my trying to help self-gain or boosting my own persona? Why would you use that as a reason to continue personal attacking. My focus remains righting this wrong. If you want to help. Please do. If not you already know only you can make that decision. Dan Heskett

I can't believe this. I just joined this great site after registering my new family member, Henk. The first post I saw was about this person with the email coloradogsd@aol.com. I had contact with her when searching for a GSD. I almost bought a dog from her but after researching I found out (thru surfing) that the dog was actually a rescue that she was going to make money on.

Team Victory’s superbly slick and professional Website, if I read correctly, reflects great and moneyed expertise in all things to do with the Shep. We have Ken Tank with ‘200 champions to his name’ and 37 years of experience, as well as having been a former director of GSDC of A - Kathy Gray also proclaims decades-long like skills. The partnership not only breeds litters and supplies stud services of course, but apparently also brokers imported dogs and furnishes obedience training etc. Yet, despite such fullsome knowledge, acquired contacts and ready self-same resources to provide an animal for daughter we are presented with the awkward, woefully heart-tugging refrain of having been ‘took’ for $300 in endeavours to aquire a dog. I FULLY AGREE WITH THIS, But these people were not "had" ..... they recieved their money back, and it was MY error that caused this entire mess. YES I listed him as a Grandson, before fully researching the pedigree. As for this fill person, he KNEW the dog he was purchasing was a displaced west german show male, who was in need of a new home. His sire owner was his actual seller, and she was asking about $1,000.00 for this dog (SHIPPING INCLUDED, this male weighed about 102lbs)

VKGSD, I humbly stand corrected. If I read you properly, the matter has now been happily resolved and may be dropped by all concerned: from its start a big to-do over naught? Perhaps sportstuff and associates will now devote their aggrandising and wordy but oh-so plausible-seeming nonsense toward animal-related topics!(and leave any mentioning of God for more appropriate occasions?)

Welcome back, Danie.

GOD IS FOR EVERY OCASSION. JUST MY OPINION. HAPPY TO HEAR THE MONEY IS FINALLY BEEN RETURNED. Thank God, GOD BLESS ALL...AGAIN Danie it's not personal and I too am glad it's resolved. Really let's you and I at least be cordial if not friendly. Respectfully, Dan

Danie writes..."Team Victory’s superbly slick and professional Website" Danie if you think it is slick and professional then thank you. We designed and maintain it ourselves. We do promote our dogs, our services and our experience..if you notice most do on websites. That is what they are for. We are proud of our reputation, our wins, and our expertise. We do have over 65 years combined experience, Ken started with the legendary Erich Renner.We are not all things to all ...we love good dogs, correct dogs, and many of friends seem to share that. We have worked , trained, and shown in multiple venues. This fact alone does not mean we are infallable, which as you may imagine makes it more embarrassing to go public with a poor decision that I made in this matter to deal with VKGSD. But it happens even to professionals. That is not a crime. Also as we breed (last litter was two years ago) and compete to the AKC/Sv standard height, and so do our contacts. A dog of the huge size is not readily available to us. That is why I was interested in him to be a bracing dog for my daughter. Take care, very warmest regards Kathy Gray

VKGSD...I know now, and many do , that you are a person of poor reputation, and questionable dealings. I accept that people like you exist, and have learned (thanks to you) that I need to lead with my head, and not my heart in all my dealings. I would rather be trusting and trustworthy myself however, as I was with you, than to be jaded and think the worst of everyone. HOWEVER,WHEN YOU REFERRED TO MY DAUGHTER, WHO FACES ENORMOUS CHALLENGE AND HARDSHIP EVERYDAY AS A "CRIPPLE", YOU WENT TOO FAR. Clearly your intolerance , and ignorance in forefront in your persona. You are a nasty person to make such a reference, you should be ashamed. You knew of all my children, except my college dtr, and we even talked about how well Axel would fit into the busy household. You took my money happily, and without hesitation. I emailed, and phoned you to privately request the refund, and was met with excuses, and nastiness. You have refunded the money, finally, but you have no honor,so don't be too proud of yourself.. and your reputation? it is now coming to light is more than tarnished. You are highly suspect in your dealings with people as evidenced by public and private emails. You are coarse, and obtuse, and rude. You will no doubt try to defraud many others. People like you give good dog people a bad name. I will entertain no more lies, and you should stop the insults to my daughter, if you have a conscience, which I doubt.You are beneath even... contempt Caveat Emptor, my Friends Kathy Gray