German shepherd in KNPV - Page 6

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by Juno on 29 May 2019 - 21:05

I honestly believe in our case it is a case of somehow miscommunication with my dog. Not a case of dominance. Have to figure out what I am missing. As my German friends say my dog “ ist ein bissien vereuckt!” A little crazy when he is in drive and needs to be calmed down and focused as he is literally jumping off of walls. Also he is extremely possessive and only I can take his toys away from him others will get bitten have stepped in to prevent a problem. You could see that even as a 8 week old, have a video.

But, that’s another story don’t want to steal this thread.

by duke1965 on 30 May 2019 - 04:05

Valk, to think there is only active and passive agression is misunderstanding,

there are various causes for ,and types of agression, many of my dogs with very good level of natural agression can be walked in public and make IPO3 without anybody actually seeing it, some others cannot,

and then there are some that will attack the handler for a correction

there are dogs that are FFing agressive in their crate or fenced garden, fall apart outside,

and soft weak dogs that will kill you if you come near their food.

supersocial dogs that have such high posession on lets say a toy, they will bite you if you want to take it,

agression out of frustration

just a few to choose from, and these are not all


by duke1965 on 30 May 2019 - 04:05

might have to add that many of todays sportdogs dont have any of that anymore, some say its good, I think not

by Juno on 30 May 2019 - 11:05

Agree with Duke.

by apple on 30 May 2019 - 11:05

Valk,
Werner Schulz, owner of Parchimer Land kennel was a member of the DDR army called NVA and a soldier at the border wall from 1974-1975. He writes on his website that where he was at the wall, there were only five dogs that were good at man work. He said the majority of dogs "had no strong nerves." They would bark and were just there for "fear and fright." I think there are still plenty of confidently aggressive GSDs, but they are less common and harder to find. I'm not so sure that a lot of the dogs you saw were showing aggression out of confidence.
I also believe the Dutch have shifted from the old style Mals and DS's who were very dominant and socially aggressive to a much more social dog, extreme in prey and hunt, but willing to fight.
Juno,
When you bring your dog out to do bite work, how would you describe his behavior as he comes on the field and sees the decoy?

by Juno on 30 May 2019 - 13:05

Apple,

Fired up even before he sees decoy because he is cueing from my body language that he will be doing bite work. So when I get him out I actually have to put him either in a down stay or sit stay command when the decoy comes into view. No agitation from decoy. I usually give him a command to alert “pass auf” and he alerts immediately or I send him on the decoy to engage at a slight movement from decoy. BTW he will alert on command in any location if I tell him to. For example, we were walking a few days ago and I heard some weird noises behind some bushes and he immediately turned around to approach it, no barking just curious. Gave him the alert command and he immediately fired up. Turned out a neighborhood hood kid who has some emotional issues but loves dogs and wanted to approach him. I asked my dog to back down which he did but did not let the kid approach nor pet him. So, he is a very clear headed dog but very strong willed.

by apple on 30 May 2019 - 13:05

I know you have expressed some reservations with PSA not being logical from a PP point of view. I don't know if you are still training for PSA, but I know you understand the importance of control in the sport. My dog would come into drive at the sight of the decoy from first sight. We worked on him coming out of the vehicle on my right side and I gave him the "walk" command and he had to be calm or he would get a correction. The reason for walking on the right side is so that he understands I do not expect a focused heel onto the field at this point, but will eventually, and at that point, he will have to do a focused heel on my left side at all times during bite work training. Then we walk up to the decoy and I down him. Then I tell him to sit and fuss to get a focused static heel, and then I give the pass auf command and he lights up and hits the end of the leash. So you are right about the lack of control you are experiencing being related to training. A dog cannot focus and learn when he is loaded up in drive.

by ValK on 30 May 2019 - 15:05

juno, looks like you somewhat did spoil him from very beginning. now, he do allow you to lead but have reserved "what is my, is my" attitude.
if i remember correctly, sometime ago you did rise that issue of dog's possessiveness and was advised to work it through release in exchange for toy.

apple, here on few occasions this misunderstanding was discussed before. in former DDR so call "wall dogs" wasn't a patrol dogs. DDR was only country in former east bloc, who did use that kind of deterring protection by the permanent placement of dogs on the border line between East and West Germany. in others countries such means wasn't practiced.

duke, how would you classify aggression, shown by those dogs?

 


by Juno on 30 May 2019 - 16:05

I can get him to calm down as you have seen in some of the videos I have posted but I have doubts if I can control him if I were to drop the leash. He will hit the decoy at the slightest movement, and he is committed and will leave a bruise through a suit and an arm guard. So nothing half hearted about him. Plus this is not because he is in a “training” field. He will do it anywhere with any decoy as he has proven. I did not put enough control in him when he was a puppy and let him get away with too much, now I am paying the price. He is not controlled enough for PSA for sure. On the other hand he is a good dog to have around if you are in a dicey situation which I never want to be for all our sake. He will back off and even “aus” but will take his time doing it. In fact when I give the “aus” command he gets so frustrated he gives another pushing bite and a severe head shake before releasing. His level of possessiveness is also extreme and I saw that in a video as a 7 week old puppy that the breeder sent me before he was sent to me. In fact she did caution me about him but he is exactly what I asked for but I mucked it up for “sports” and “competition” but I am happy with him in real life.

by apple on 30 May 2019 - 18:05

Valk,
I know you asked Duke, but that is clearly defensive aggressive and doesn't look particularly strong to me. It involves self defense because the soldier is jabbing the dog with the stick and there is an element of guardiness because the dog is either guarding his food or water(resource guarding.) The dogs, especially the second one look stressed and uncommitted to the bite, but have few choices because they cannot totally flee because they are chained. They are worried and are trying to chase the worry away. Most people would consider this shit training today.
Juno,
There is a Mal from KNPV unregistered bloodlines who is a stud dog where I train. He was sold to his current owners because of the foundation his original handler put on him. Every time the dog was brought out, all he did was bite. Because of the dog's intensity, there is no way he could be titled now. But if he had a different foundation, he might be able to be titled, but it would still be a challenge. He has very good genetics with poor training. Even if he was going to be a candidate for police work, which is more of the type of dog he is, the foundation training nixed the chances of him becoming a police dog because they need to have control as well.


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