German shepherd in KNPV - Page 11

Pedigree Database


by Juno on 04 June 2019 - 12:06

Agree with Apple’s comments. One needs both - hands on experience and knowledge gained through reading material, videos etc. I am an Engineer by profession and have been doing it for almost 30 years in aviation - trust me you need both. I have seen rookie engineers make some dumb ass mistakes due to lack of experience and also some very experienced engineers make similar mistakes because they relied too much on experience and not on the actual data.

by apple on 04 June 2019 - 13:06

The other thing is that different professions have a set of technical language or jargon that operationally defines things. In the dog world those things would be drives, traits, thresholds, types of aggression, nerves, directability, sharpness, hardness, etc. A problem is that these terms often means different things to different people. So communicating about dogs lacks consistency. For example, is there such a thing as play drive and if so, how is it different from prey drive? Then the reading of dogs can be very subjective. When it comes to training, there are many ways to teach a dog a behavior and training has to be tailored to what the individual dog brings to the training. IMO, all this inconsistency and subjectivity, along with greed, is detrimental to sound breeding practices. Another issue is that the opinion that a dog is good or strong is subjective and, as Duke pointed out, is the dog good for what. A dog might make a great detection dog and a lousy apprehension dog. A dog might make a great sport dog but a lousy police dog. Breeding based on points is a poor practice because points can largely be the result of training and not genetics. Plus, my bias is that most breeders do not develop their own actual bloodlines where they have a good idea of what the genetically dominant genes are in their breeding partners so that they can best predict what is likely to be produced in a breeding. The type of dog in demand changes with the pendulum swinging back and forth.

by ValK on 04 June 2019 - 14:06

duke, but you and others do contribute to this community by writing and posting video.
isn't that done with educational purpose to share own experience with others?
how many dogs owners does come in here with their issues and questions, related to their dogs and in fact do find answer/solution.
of course, one cannot remotely train someone's dog but that not the point. the writing, supported by video example is a very good supplementary tool, easily available today to everyone.
it's a great advantage to have abilities for such instant simultaneous communication with people who has similar interests from around the world.

by Centurian on 04 June 2019 - 14:06

Duke writes : " so how do you show/explain/teach timing and reading bodylanguage and different responses to different variations in a book, or in case of breeding, how to explain evaluating a female in order to select right male for mating, "

We learn ... by doing ... There is information , no matter what the source that can be a guide... But in life not everything is carved in stone, in books and is absolute . That is the problem which Duke points out wisely. He writes " I regularly see weak and or nervy dogs, discribed as strong an/or high drive " .

To anwer your question Duke : that is what I was trying to address in my posts when I reference humans and canines alike. This is what I am trying to stimulate people to think about . So how do I liken your question : the only way you understand people , their attributes , their skills , their personalities , their behaviors , their strengths /weaknesses.... is in life only by dealing with , interacting with all different people. When we meet someone , whether we choose to consciously or not , we are making judgements about that person . That is to say , we inherently realize that not all people are alike nor do they act alike. Doing this with dogs my point is not so different.

How I choose to explain and teach about dogs is to use what the handler knows about poeple and translate that over to the dogs. For example , someone asked me " was does this dog not out" ? I replied " there are several reasons a dog won't out as thee are several reasons why a person does or doesn't do something". The dog appeared to be strong, but in essence the dog was weak [ Duke that is a freference that you made]. So I said to this fellow , consider two brothers fighting, the older stronger brother was in a head lock by the younger brother. The younger brother does not let go . So I asked the fellow why . He responded because if he does maybe the older brother will kick the Sh** out of the younger once free . I said to him : " exactly , so you see the dog that you thought was strong really wasn't - internally he is weak " . What do you think is going through that dogs head? THe dog is thinking : I got him where I want him and I am not letting go of the upper hand ".

Another example : a man enraged , out of control kicking the Sh*t out of someone who literally is on the ground helpless , and he won't stop. Cannot dogs be of that same bent? Once they are on the bite , out of control , they will tear someone apart . What are the attributes of teach of these men - and if they were dogs what attibutes do you think they wpuldhave- maybe rthe same ones .. just maybe...

If someone is in your body space , can you not tell if this is a wise guy or a marshmellow wimp . How do you feel when threatened or your body space is violated? Cannot you tell the attributes that make up a warrior as opposed to a wimpy man ? Cannot you see people respond excessively, exaggeratedly in the blink of an eye for the slightest provocation , as opposed to someone responding normally ? Dogs , they are not differnt in these respects either.

The way I teach , and I can easily explain with all the canine theory , and all the nomencalture . I can even write a books about this as others do , but learning is doing and living the experience using what you already know to bettter yourself. Getting out there with different dogs and USING what knowledge you have about people will greatly help you understand the dogs .This is my npount Duke , we can learn and understand by what we know in life about people.

So a few pages back .. videos of dogs being tested : Just look and ask yourself : who , what ,where when and why in a specific cicumstance . In this case those videos. I like what Valk said, remarkable atetement Valk makes : : days ago we didn't go to books and this and that to be able to understasnd the dog !!! Put yourself in those dogs position while being tested in the video and observe . So I , my thinking : I observe and ask myself : was the dog more concerned about defending it's food ? Was the dog feeling threatened and concerend about efending itself , or both ? How did it behave , how did it respond to the that if threatened quantity and quality wise. Why and how did the dog handle this : did it run /avoid or did it come back to challenge ? How long did it take the dog to feel secure , confrtable back to it's normal state. Same as a person : does that person try to avoid , does that person run away , does that person take on the threat and fight back how long does it take before you are over that adrenelin rush and feel normal ?

How do you read body language : ,,,,,,I will ask the reader : how do YOU read people's body language ? BTW that is not entirely all the truth of the matter either. The body language is not the sole important feature, hell no , 'it is their CHANGE in body language that is the tell tale factor ' , just as it is in people. And that is what people notice intentioinally or without intention . If you approach someone , do they step back [ even unintentionally we notice this ]? Do they change their look and look you in the eye or look away from you when you approach ? As I used to tell the people that I was teaching : look at the dog's eyes , control the dog's eyes , then you control what it thinks . First come the thoughts as revealed by the eyes then comes the action[s]. Again use what you know about , as you have learned to deal with people. Then you will better understand the dogs. Not everyone may rise to the level of renowned experienced professionals. I am not asking this of anyone, but what I am advocating is that you don't have to feel that you know nothing about canines .. even if you do understand the canine lingo ....

IMOp , if you want to teach someone about canines then put that into the language and experience that they already know and understand... Talk to them on their wavelength... just as Valk said they had to do when there were no books or videos... That is my long pontificated opinion ... for whatever it is worth


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