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Jessejones

by Jessejones on 16 January 2019 - 18:01

Valk says:
as for (DDR) "dogs were destroyed", well, that another internet myth.... patrol dogs were rehomed mainly by their respective handlers. for wall dogs campaign for rehoming was held and seems majority of them was taken by general public. in any case, these wall dogs wasn't the stock, to use in breeding

Most of you here know this part of history....so sorry if I digress.

....but I lived in Germany during that time. I remember well those days, seems like it was not that long ago to me!

Many of the DDR government dogs, border and working dogs, were adopted out through the West German Humane Societies, which took over the government dogs from the east, to re-home to civilians, mostly in the west, that wanted a dog like this. The numbers were around 4-5000 dogs. It was quite the news story at the time...and every German dog lover wanted to help in some way. Because of the Humane Societies involvement, many were neutered and spayed before being re-homed to the general public.

Each dog was temperament tested by the German Humane Societies, and the vast majority of them were very good with no aggression issues. The reports at the time, from people adopting them, often described them as very loving and sweet dogs. Not the aggressiveness one would have expected. 

The East breeders, after the wall came down, found they could not compete with the W. German dogs. Some did try, but did not get far...because of the ‘set’ standard of the SV in the west and the different dog type desired. So they began buying west dogs themselves and stopped breeding east dogs or sold them for cheap. Some soon did realize what they lost, and tried to regain...but in dogs years...time passes too quickly.

 

by duke1965 on 16 January 2019 - 19:01

hidden sleeve is preybite, not civil, it is trained behaviour and dog will always look for that area to target

 

JJ  really, dogs and humans are not alike at all, its the biggest origin of problems to think your dog has any human similarity


by apple on 16 January 2019 - 19:01

Duke,
Mike was not wearing a hidden sleeve in that video. That is why he said it was as close to a real bite as you will get and why he was injured from the bite.
As for the old DDR dogs, I think there is likely a lot of misinformation. I understand they were not tattooed until six months of age which allowed for easily creating false papers. I think their appeal was large heads and strong bone and pigment. Low prey drive and a tendency for some to be highly dominate are not traits I would look for in a dog.
Jessejones

by Jessejones on 16 January 2019 - 19:01

Duke says:
JJ  really, dogs and humans are not alike at all, its the biggest origin of problems to think your dog has any human similarity

No, I don’t agree. I will stick to my statement probably until I breathe my last breath. 

Now... just because I see the huge similarities between dogs and humans, in form of drives and certain emotions...it does not mean that I place them on the same level of evolvement as myself, or humans. That is a big difference! A dog does my bidding. Never the other way around. 

What I am saying, is that most of us humans have the ability to ‘understand’ to a larger degree, why a dog is motivated to do what it is doing. Why? Because we can compare it to our motivations, our human motivations. A psychopath or a narcissist may not be a good dog trainer, because they lack empathy. (**Not in the sense of ‘feeling sorry for” but in understanding why a particular response is happening).

If we did not have the same ‘animal brain’ and more particular the ‘pack brain’ as dogs do...we would not be able to do this.

The best trainers out there, are able to see past a dog just being a dog...and get into the brain of the dog. Not everyone can or has learned to see it in order to do it.

Again, it does not mean placing the dog on our level.

by apple on 16 January 2019 - 19:01

"Dogs have all the same brain structures that produce emotions in humans as well as the same hormones and undergo the same chemical changes that humans do during emotional states. Dogs even have the hormone oxytocin, which, in humans, is involved with feelings of love and affection for others."

by duke1965 on 16 January 2019 - 19:01

LOL apple, if he wasnot wearing anything underneath, that dog didnot do much damage

JJ whatever floats your boat,

by apple on 16 January 2019 - 19:01

It was a young female and his dog so the dog's motivation was more out of bite drive than ager, prey or frustration.

by ValK on 16 January 2019 - 20:01

apple look, dog's ability to bite either dressed or not dressed human cannot be translated into assured ability to withstand in fight to opponent. particularly if opponent physically and mentally superior to dog.
what is wrong with thesis about defense/fight through prey (hunt), is that it's ignore emotional/mental aspect behind that dog's action.
dogs isn't machines. there are motivation, primitive from human point but still logical thinking, which goes through dog's brain.
hunt do not involve anger/fury or in fact defense at all. when prey turns out to be stronger than dog, dog simply let that prey  go.

different motivation behind the rank/dominance competition. if in general the instinct dictate to every dog to avoid unnecessary fight (defense), dog's urge to dominate/submit an opponent pushes the dog into fight on goodwill desire, with different from hunting mindset and goals.
in it's nature that not even defense but offense act. such fight would end only on condition of dog's level of pain tolerance or death of one of either side involved in such fight.
such type of dogs in needs of good knowledge/experience from handler and obviously not suitable for average dog lovers. 
commercial breeding, concerned mostly about revenue/profitability, would never be willing to specialize operation on such dogs. even in successful program, there would be significant output of dogs, who still not suitable for rehoming into average household due to their sharp temperament and increasing weight of owner's responsibility.

i guess that a main reason behind widespread among breeders the pushing of prey trait and it's been used as universal substitution for loss of dominant characteristic in breed.

by duke1965 on 16 January 2019 - 20:01

prey is easy to work from young dog on, many people do not understand or cannot work anything else than prey work,

@ apple, she was not biting from anger, nor prey, but bite drive ?  please explain ????????????

bladeedge

by bladeedge on 16 January 2019 - 22:01

Duke ๐Ÿ‘Œ๐Ÿ‘Œ๐Ÿ‘


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